Author Topic: An alternative to "Kill shooter" (Read 4320 times)

1K3 · « **on:** August 17, 2005, 04:54:42 PM »

Instead of killing "yourself" when you accidentally or deliberately shot friendly aircraft...

how about this...

when friendly aircraft is at your crosshair of teh gunsight and you try to shoot it down, make the aircraft guns not fire at friendly planes once they're in the crosshairs.

Karnak · « **Reply #1 on:** August 17, 2005, 05:42:11 PM »

That would encourage shoulder shooting and tilt the advantage more towards the attacker and away from the defender. In other words it would distort the air combat balance.

Bodhi · « **Reply #2 on:** August 18, 2005, 12:48:38 AM »

I think Birdo should get to add some ideas to the killshooter!

Azul32 · « **Reply #3 on:** August 18, 2005, 01:48:41 AM »

roflmao.....dont forget to finish him off next time Birdo!!!!!!:rofl

Ghosth · « **Reply #4 on:** August 18, 2005, 06:22:33 AM »

in a word, nope!

Killshooter is a deterant period. It works.
Changing it in any way will change gameplay, and not for the better.

If your getting killshootered more than once a tour your doing something wrong. Maybe best rethink your strategy?

Tilt · « **Reply #5 on:** August 18, 2005, 10:38:12 AM »

Would be better to invoke a 10 second ( or Significant period ) gun jam. It would put the perpetrator out of the fight.

Tails · « **Reply #6 on:** August 18, 2005, 11:37:04 AM »

Something that could work is AW's old 'persona non grata' system with some addons.

The way that worked, if you shot down two or three friendlies, you got no ammo or ord for a few hours.

Add to that, for AH2, if you damage a friendly you take the same hit to perks as if you had crashed/bailed/ditched.

Shoot a friendly down, and you get no perks that sortie, no score, and your name does not show up in lights.

Figure that might be enough of a deterant for the score-mongers and dweebs alike.

Now, KS as is works pretty good. I'm just tossing in an idea.

hubsonfire · « **Reply #7 on:** August 18, 2005, 01:02:07 PM »

The thing everyone keeps trying to ignore, is that none of the options suggested take 1 of the attackers out of the fight. With the current system, the defender can easily see/hear when 1 attacker has died to careless shooting/poor SA. With the PNG/gunjam/rubber bullet/zeroed out ammo ideas, the defender still thinks he's in a 2 on 1, as he has no way of knowing if the guy behind him shot a friendly hard enough to become ineffective. Add to that uncertainty that if the attackers are flying the same planetype, there's almost no way to tell who's who.

Killshooter's fine, and there's no better solution at present.

Clifra Jones · « **Reply #8 on:** August 18, 2005, 03:28:39 PM »

Posteds it once, I guess I'll do it again.

HiTech on the subject of Kill shooter. Granted the fuse damage model has change but the rest is still relavent.

Quote

Posted by HiTech 02-25-2002:
The problem comes in how to apply the damage when you are shooting at different plane type , i.e. you could be shooting eng 4 on a plane with 1 eng.

To over come this all damage from kill shooter is applied to the center fuse.

It never ceases to amaze me how people love to blame the kill shooter on the other guy diving in.
If the plane is above you and he is diving in, he can't even see you.

It's realy simple.
It is the shooter responsiblity to make sure he is clear to fire. No if's, no ands, no buts.

For those complaning about some one flying infront of them.

Read this again.

It is the shooter responsibliyt to make sure he is clear to fire.

One more time.

It is the shooter responsiblity to make sure he is clear to fire.

And in case you are not clear on my views on the subject.

It is the shooter responsiblity to make sure he is clear to fire.

Think of it as an instant court marshal and a sentance of a firing squad.

HiTech

Again in the same thread replying to Tac

Quote

Unfortunataly responsibity ends when the tracers are flying. People fly into the bullet stream.

So you wan't the kill so bad,want points so bad, that you are willing to risk killingl a friendly.

Read again.

It is the shooters responsiblity to make sure he is clear to fire.

If some one is diving in you are NOT clear to fire.

Thats a bit off i'd say. Sure, they may dive into a con and not see you behind him, but they sure as heck can see the tracers you're firing his way.
Again .
It is the shooters responsiblity to make sure he is clear to fire.

Point is, some people just dont give a damn and fly in there regardless.
Again.
It is the shooters responsiblity to make sure he is clear to fire.

Accidents happen as well, **** happens. But penalizing the person that didnt cause the accident by having 1 or 2 killshooter pings whacking him off the sky doesnt sound right.

This would be like blaming a guy for hiting your car after you just ran a red light, because "well he saw me".

Again.
You want the kill so bad,want points so bad, that you are willing to risk killing a friendly.

It is the shooters responsiblity to make sure he is clear to fire.

All I'd like to see is a few more leniency towards hits received before causing damage, give the victims a chance to stop firing before killshooting themselves (target fixation, press trigger, BIG green icon plane jumps in front split second surprise, trigger still pressed, *plinkplink* *BOOM* you go).

Again.
You want the kill so bad,want points so bad, that you are willing to risk killing a friendly.

It is the shooter responsiblity to make sure he is clear to fire.

Tac everything you are aguing is you wanting the kill no different then the guy diving in wants the kill.

Only thing is the other guy is in a better position for the kill than you are. What you are acusing other people of, you are more guilty of yourself.

The rule is simple.

It is the shooter responsiblity to make sure he is clear to fire.

HiTech

And

Quote

Posted by HiTech 3-19-2005
And before this thread gets going. Don't sugest somthing that has all ready been suggested because unless a new idea comes up ,(which is doubtfull) kill shooter will not be changing.

HiTech

And finally I guess you could call this the definative statement that could cover every suggestion made regarding kill shooter.

Quote

Originally posted by hitech
Yep brand new Idea, Only considered this option over 12 years ago. And it has only been suggest a couple of dozen times after that. The idea sucked then and still does now.

HiTech

So you see, as long as you adhear to HiTech's one simple rule you will never have a problem with Kill Shooter.

It is the shooter responsiblity to make sure he is clear to fire.

Just in case you have not grasped it yet I will repeat it for you.

It is the shooter responsiblity to make sure he is clear to fire.

Karnak · « **Reply #9 on:** August 18, 2005, 03:39:40 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Tilt
Would be better to invoke a 10 second ( or Significant period ) gun jam. It would put the perpetrator out of the fight.

That does not take him out of the fight. How do you know that the Spitfire behind you can't fire his guns? You don't, so you react defensively? Obviously you react, and he just forced you to waste valuable E making it easier for another guy to kill you. In otherwords he affected the fight he was "out of".

hubsonfire · « **Reply #10 on:** August 18, 2005, 08:16:53 PM »

Slight correction regarding the earlier quote of damage assignment. Damage is now applied to the area on your plane that corresponds to where your bullets landed on the friendly plane.

I had thought damage was still assigned by the old method, but HT pointed out that it had changed in one of the other "get rid of KS so I can spray wildly" threads.

Also, in case you missed it,

It is the shooter's responsiblity to make sure he is clear to fire.

Ack-Ack · « **Reply #11 on:** August 18, 2005, 08:34:49 PM »

There is an alternative to the Killshooter. Like Tails pointed out, AW's Persona Non Grata system worked very well. If you killed two friendlies within a 24 hour period you were unable to up any plane with any type of ordinance for 24 hours. An additional 24 hour penalty was tacked on for additional kills beyond the 2nd. You were still able to take off in any plane you wanted but you just couldn't carry any ammo or ordnance.

But this is only a deterent to those that intend to grief other players and it worked very well. Not many found the fun in shooting down friendlies in AW if it meant you were basically forced to become a Gooney driver afterwards.

And on the other hand, killshooter does work how it's intended and HiTech unfortunately has ruled any possibility of the PNG system as he didn't like the system. Wish though he would rethink his position.

ack-ack

ramzey · « **Reply #12 on:** August 18, 2005, 09:15:07 PM »

kill shooter is good, 24h ban can piss of many, current clear rule is best
10 s weapon jam will teach you nothing

only no skill player can ask for something like that

DREDIOCK · « **Reply #13 on:** August 19, 2005, 12:38:23 AM »

hell what good would that do? Half the kills I get the targt isnt in my gunsight

Clifra Jones · « **Reply #14 on:** August 19, 2005, 11:41:43 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by hubsonfire
Slight correction regarding the earlier quote of damage assignment. Damage is now applied to the area on your plane that corresponds to where your bullets landed on the friendly plane.

I did mention that is has changed now. Maybe I wasn't clear enough.

Thanks for elaborating on it hubs.

Oh yeah, just in case some of you still don't get it.

It is the shooters responsibility to make sure it is clear to shoot!