Fair Tax Law...opinions?

[Steve]

like a flat tax. Lot of pluses. No more huge corporations poking money through loopholes to avoid paying taxes would be nice. Might even keep the money in the U.S. as opposed to banking it all off-shore.

Amen

It will never pass, but it is a nice dream.

Amen

[jEEZY]

Although I am in favor of such ideas (flat tax and consumption taxes) it will never pass becuase it would curtail Congress' power to effect social engineering through the tax code.

[StarOfAfrica2]

Flat tax?  Love to see it happen.  Probably wont.  Even if it does, they'll find some way to keep the pressure on us.  The feds have been screwing John Q Public with the Income Tax for decades.  That is a perfect example of the Govt.'s idea of a "workable" tax.  Bah.  As for this Fair Tax?  I dunno, sounds good at first.  But digging a little it seems very complicated, almost worse than the Income Tax regulations we have now.  

Here's a decent run down (although even this is a bit light on real info) on tax history and the "Fair Tax".

http://www.taxhistory.org/thp/readings.nsf/cf7c9c870b600b9585256df80075b9dd/cfbe9de4a695d74f85257014004f1184?OpenDocument

Keep in mind, the post there is written by tax analysts.  There could be some prejudicial thinking involved in the opinions, and they dont entirely stick to facts.  Who does anymore?

[Seagoon]

Personally, I too prefered a flat income tax of around 14% for everyone regardless of income. At present I'd go for the "fair tax" plan as well.

As those pushing the plan have pointed out, you wouldn't see a 23% increase in the price of goods because there are already a large amount of taxes built into the final price of consumer goods.

As far as the effect of the fair tax on Non-profits like my church, we could handle a 23% sales tax because we really don't spend that much on goods and because of the previously mentioned drop in the cost of manufacture etc. We could even possibly pay the 14% flat tax with a lot of belt tightening (unfortunately this would also impact our ability to give diaconial assistance.) But what would definitely force us underground in no time would be being forced to pay corporate taxes at currently existing rates [6.9% state & 39% Federal & whatever the local rate is]. There is no way we could pay them and remain solvent. We are only just barely in the black as it is.

My fear, however, is that the "fair tax" will be implemented without abolishing the IRS, and eventually you will get a national sales tax AND a national income tax. Those who find that difficult to believe should remember that when the income tax originally came out it was claimed that it was not much of a threat because it would never go above 2%.

Regardless, I've long felt that current combined taxation levels are well past confiscatory. It's humorous to reflect that Americans rebelled against the British government over a per capita taxation level of under 2%!

- SEAGOON

[Sandman]

Oh... and the House of Reps is nuts.

[JTs]

23% sure would be nice to drop down a few brackets.

[lazs2]

Uh.. sandie.. we allready have about 50 cents a gallon tax on gasoline.. there is no sales tax.   Gas tax is supposed to go toward fixing the roads and infrastructure... the rate now is enough to build roads 4 feet thick in concrete and 75' wide...

because we are taxed so much on gas is why we have excellent roads in perfect repair.

lazs

[Sandman]

Originally posted by lazs2
Uh.. sandie.. we allready have about 50 cents a gallon tax on gasoline.. there is no sales tax.   Gas tax is supposed to go toward fixing the roads and infrastructure... the rate now is enough to build roads 4 feet thick in concrete and 75' wide...

because we are taxed so much on gas is why we have excellent roads in perfect repair.

lazs

True enough, but wouldn't the national sales tax apply to gasoline as well?

[Seagoon]

Originally posted by Sandman
True enough, but wouldn't the national sales tax apply to gasoline as well?

Sandman,

Here in North Carolina the combined State and Federal direct excise taxes are 40.8 cents per gallon of which 18.4 cents is Federal. Hopefully, with the implementation of the "Fair Tax" that 18.4 cents would be removed.

But even if it isn't removed, what we pay but don't see in the cost of gallon of gas are the embedded taxes that the oil companies have to pay the federal government and pass on to the consumer in the form of higher prices. Remove those  taxes and you would see a major drop in the per gallon price of gas on the direct cost to consumers before taxation side.

Of course the 22 cents of state excise tax would remain, but hey, the states are always gonna want their slice of the pie.

- SEAGOON

[Lazerus]

Originally posted by StarOfAfrica2
Flat tax?  Love to see it happen.  

I was in favor of the flat tax plan a couple of years ago, but I've changed my position in favor of the national sales tax plan. A flat tax would still be an income tax and the IRS would still remain. Income tax inherently punishes productivity, and the demise of the agency created to enforce it would not be a bad thing, to say the least.

One of the benefits of the Fair Tax is that previously untaxed sectors of our society would become part of the tax base. Monies earned through illegal activities that are not claimed as income now would be taxed at the retail level. Under the table workers, sellers of illegal products etc.

[rabbidrabbit]

Instead of mailing everyone a prebate check why not simply not charge taxes on food and clothing?  Easier.  Cheaper.

[vorticon]

Originally posted by rabbidrabbit
Instead of mailing everyone a prebate check why not simply not charge taxes on food and clothing?  Easier.  Cheaper.

because with the prebate check,  washington gets to "estimate" how much peoplespendon them, rather than how much or little they actually do

[rabbidrabbit]

never heard of polling?

There are tons of better ways than spamming tens of millions of households with the same check every month.

[vorticon]

Originally posted by rabbidrabbit
never heard of polling?

There are tons of better ways than spamming tens of millions of households with the same check every month.

according to polls, less than 10% of people my age have drank or done drugs.

i agree, but you cant expect to much sense from politicians in one go, can you?

[Lazerus]

Originally posted by StarOfAfrica2
Here's a decent run down (although even this is a bit light on real info) on tax history and the "Fair Tax".

http://www.taxhistory.org/thp/readings.nsf/cf7c9c870b600b9585256df80075b9dd/cfbe9de4a695d74f85257014004f1184?OpenDocument
 

That article is very uninformative and obviously emotionaly biased, as opposed to factualy opposed. The only legitimate point made is the method of computing the percentage of the tax paid. That argument has since been abandoned because the ones proposing it did not use the same method for the current tax system. Doing so weakened their position against the Fair Tax plan.

The difference in the method:

Spend $100 on an item.
Item cost, $77.
Taxes paid, $23.

23 is 23% of 100, but just under 30% of 77.

23% of your money went to taxes, but you paid 30% over the cost of the item in taxes.