Author Topic: God and us  (Read 866 times)

Offline Godzilla

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God and us
« Reply #30 on: August 21, 2005, 11:44:04 AM »
Skuzzy, I'm not trying to deride anyone if they don't believe what I believe, I'm just saying that I find it amazing that some people could actually believe matter could pop into existance and things pop into existance out of nothing, yet would not even consider that an a higher intelligence might be behind the design of the universe.

And the universe does have order. Everything in the universe obeys unchangable laws. The moon leaving earths orbit is an example of it following laws, not random patterns.

My example of a skyscraper was a perfect example of how that is not considered possible......yet some people think something as complex as life itself could happen by chance. Why does it matter if a skyscraper is man made or not? There is a school of thought that some point to which says that, given enough time, anything can pop into existance from nothing.

The subject and the philosphy interest me very much. I am not saying that people who do not believe as I do are  wrong, Im just stating how I view it and stateing that, to me......I'm amazed at what people will believe to the point of being very illogical, yet the universe and all matter are perfectly logical and obey laws.

Nothing happens outside of the laws of physics........that we know of. The universe and everything in it has perfect order.

If the univserse did not happen by chance, then what caused it to exist? Where did matter come from? It's not a troll, I find it interesting.

Thanks for giving me a chance and this thread a chance. I feel that people are being resonable and found the camero comments to be funny. Hopefully it stays within the bounderies.

Offline Godzilla

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« Reply #31 on: August 21, 2005, 11:49:05 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by BUG_EAF322
Ok i got i mind blowing question.

Who created God?
And who created him or it.


Thats a good question. It's almost the same as asking where matter came from and what created it. It's like the chicked before the egg thing

It's something man will never have an answer to, in my opinion.

Offline Godzilla

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Re: Re: God and us
« Reply #32 on: August 21, 2005, 11:58:56 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by SaburoS
Science can't explain everything 100%....yet. Maybe never, maybe someday. Yet God's existence hasn't been proven to date.

Ironic how those that want 100% verifiable scientific proof of the beginning of the universe won't furnish any proof at all of God creating the universe, let alone proof of God's existence at all.

My mind is wide open, prove to me that God exists and you'll have this atheist changing sides real quick. I'm interested in the absolute truth.


I'm not saying that there is proof of God. I am saying that there is no logical reason why a superior intelligence should be ruled out, in my opinion. And I know that science and man will never know all the answers. That's what makes this interesting to me. The overwelming amount of things we will never know, but can only postulate about.

I just happen to feel that everything in the universe and all of life and the balance required for it all to work, plus the laws that everything obeys could not have just evolved by chance or out of the big bang. That's not even asking where matter came from itself.

I kind of like the way Einstein thought about it. He basically did not believe in a personal god who cares about human beings, but he sure did believe that a higher intelligence was behind the universe. It's like the more he knew, the more he was convinced that it could not have all happened at random.

Offline Holden McGroin

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« Reply #33 on: August 21, 2005, 12:10:37 PM »
The egg came first.

There I answered it.
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Offline thrila

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« Reply #34 on: August 21, 2005, 12:11:28 PM »
hard boiled or runny?
"Willy's gone and made another,
Something like it's elder brother-
Wing tips rounded, spinner's bigger.
Unbraced tailplane ends it's figure.
One-O-nine F is it's name-
F is for futile, not for fame."

Offline Holden McGroin

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« Reply #35 on: August 21, 2005, 12:12:08 PM »
runny but still in the shell.
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Offline lazs2

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« Reply #36 on: August 21, 2005, 01:15:46 PM »
subaru... I believe that an agnostic is someone who sits in the middle... someone who says "maybe there is a god and maybe not".

For instance.... I am an agnostic when it comes to scientific theory.... I allways say... "maybe.... maybe not"

lazs

Offline StarOfAfrica2

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« Reply #37 on: August 21, 2005, 01:17:49 PM »
Having seen what I have of the world, I'd say he's right.  The Egg came first.  And sir, that Egg was CRACKED.

Offline Holden McGroin

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« Reply #38 on: August 21, 2005, 01:19:54 PM »
It is a (I hate to say it) scientifically verifiable, stone cold fact.

The egg came first.
« Last Edit: August 21, 2005, 03:09:20 PM by Holden McGroin »
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Offline J_A_B

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« Reply #39 on: August 21, 2005, 03:24:49 PM »
"Accident" and "chance" are not the same thing.  Saying that life on Earth was created by accident is incorrect.  An accident is unintended, while chance is merely something that may or may not happen.  We can't even be sure of whether life on earth was a "small" chance or not--life may well be common throughout the universe.  It may not have been chance at all...Life may be an inevitability on earth-like planets and such planets might not be uncommon.  Or, life may be a fluke.  With current technology, we have no way of knowing.  

As for evolution...Darwin-style evolution based on spurts of random mutation is increasingly being shown to be incorrect.  Nonetheless, evolution happens at least to some extent, although its a gradual process.  Look at the different races of people.  No matter whether you believe in strict evolution OR biblical creation, it's not even in dispute that all present-day humans come from a fairly small number of ancestors.  In a relatively short time (thousands of years) we have changed and grown quite distinct from each other.  Is it REALLY such a stretch to think that in a longer period of time--millions of years--we might keep growing different until we could no longer reproduce with each other?  I think not.   Sauropod dinosaurs continued getting larger and larger over a long period of time--we DO have the fossil record to show that form of evolution happening.  Evolution happens, at least in some forms.  You can't even belive in the Bible without believing in some degree of evolution.  

Creationists argue that you don't have to believe in strict Biblical Creation to believe in Intelligent Design.  That is true.  It is equally true that you don't need to completely agree with Darwin to realize that evolution happens.  At the basic level, believing in Intelligent Design doesn't mean you can't believe in evolution either.  Just because a process happens doesn't mean there isn't something "intelligent" (as opposed to nature) guiding that process.

ID proponents often ask "Where did matter come from?".  A reply is often along the lines of "Then where did God come from?".   If someome is prepared to accept that God simply exists, then why can't he also accept that perhaps matter/energy always existed.  If you can't accept that possibly energy/matter always existed, then you can't logically just assume that some OTHER force (God) always existed, either.  No matter what belief you subscribe to, there MUST be some sort of starting point.

If there IS some sort of intelligence guiding the process of creation, then it isn't intelligence in the human sense.  All known forms of "real" intelligence are forms of life.  All life is born, needs food to sustain itself, and eventually dies.  Something with the power to guide the formation of the universe couldn't even be alive in that sense of the word.   To believe in Intelligent Design, then, we must do one of two things.  We must either be willing to "bend" the traditional meaning of "intelligence", or we must believe in some sort of higher level of Existance.  The latter is pure conjecture.  If you're willing to do the former, then perhaps the natural order itself is that "intelligence".

It all boils down to this--we just don't know.  It makes for good dicsussion, though.

J_A_B

Offline AWMac

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« Reply #40 on: August 21, 2005, 04:25:00 PM »
No fools the Rooster came first...

No Rooster, No Egg, No Egg, No Chicken, No Chicken, No Rooster...

Chit...wait a minute...dammm Brain Cramp!


Mac?

Offline Skydancer

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« Reply #41 on: August 21, 2005, 06:19:12 PM »
Scientists could tell you how the universe and stuff was created. A good way to start might be to read this.


Science for non scientists. And pretty funny at times too.

APDrone

You should write scripts that was realy good!  :aok

As for who created God? Man did isn't that obvious!  :lol

Offline stantond

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« Reply #42 on: August 21, 2005, 07:34:05 PM »
What bothers me most is that the 'theory' of Evolution is not taught as a 'theory' at all, but as fact.  Similar to the 'Theory of Flight', Evolution is one explanation which can be measured and verified for the most part.  However, it is not complete and has some significant gaps.  Similarly, Quantum mechanics is an answer to observed paradoxical pheomenon which requires statistical analysis.

What I find interesting, and I must admit I am a bit of a physics geek, is String Theory and the requirement for multiple coexisting dimensions as part of the theory.  These multiple dimensions can coexist along with ours.  Who's to say that that, under certain circumstances, matter can not pass between one dimension and another?  It gives a whole new perspective on matter, gravity, energy, and time.  Of course, that (in my opinion) still requires some sort of master designer who I call God.  


Regards,

Malta

Offline Vulcan

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« Reply #43 on: August 21, 2005, 09:35:59 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Godzilla
Skuzzy, I'm not trying to deride anyone if they don't believe what I believe, I'm just saying that I find it amazing that some people could actually believe matter could pop into existance and things pop into existance out of nothing, yet would not even consider that an a higher intelligence might be behind the design of the universe.


Umm, OK, so say there is this god who created the universe.

What did he create it with?