Author Topic: Time to scrape off the old fingerprints... (Read 1919 times)

Udie · « **on:** December 17, 2001, 04:07:00 PM »

http://www.smh.com.au/breaking/2001/12/14/FFX058CU6VC.html

What a joke! I hope they don't try and bring this toejam on us for real. SSN- wasn't supposed to be a national ID, it is... I wonder what part of the words "right to privacy" these buracratic bellybutton holes don't understand.

Anybody ever try to NOT give your SSN to somebody that asks, like a doctor. Isn't it true that the only people you "have" to give it too is the governmtn/IRS? I've had some brutal arguments (and won) with other people/companies trying to get the number. I already have 2 numbers, I don't need a third, in reality I don't even need the 1 but it is forced upon me with out any regard to my will or sence of freedom

That's why I hate government in most forms.

Well I'd better stop before I really get going.......

capt. apathy · « **Reply #1 on:** December 17, 2001, 05:01:00 PM »

i refused to give ss#'s when registering my kids for school. they said they couldn't register them without them because the schools reg. # is your ss#. after i threatened to goto court it was all worked out. my oldests school id # is 000-00-0001,
the midle one is 000-00-0002 and so on. nobody can make you give out the # (of course you can't claim your kids as deductions if you don't give their # to the irs) you just have to explain to these companys that not everything has to fit in their forms

Raubvogel · « **Reply #2 on:** December 17, 2001, 05:19:00 PM »

Calm down Francis. I have my SSN, fingerprints, dental X-rays, and DNA all on file. Does that make me any less free? No. If you obey the law and don't do anything stupid you have nothing to be paranoid about.

Swoop · « **Reply #3 on:** December 17, 2001, 05:22:00 PM »

What's an SSN when it's at home?

Fatty · « **Reply #4 on:** December 17, 2001, 05:41:00 PM »

Easy on the acid man. Else next you'll be smashing your TV for looking at you all the time.

capt. apathy · « **Reply #5 on:** December 17, 2001, 05:44:00 PM »

Quote

Calm down Francis. I have my SSN, fingerprints, dental X-rays, and DNA all on file. Does that make me any less free? No. If you obey the law and don't do anything stupid you have nothing to be paranoid about.

along the same logic as it's ok for us to kick your door in and search your house, you got nothing to hide right.

and we're gonna put these camera's on you all the time too, you aint gonna do anything illegal are you.

gov'ts change, power turns over to other groups and you never know what these new groups will do with stockpiles of info.

Dr. johny fever WKRP -"when their out to get you, paranoid is just good think'n"

[ 12-17-2001: Message edited by: capt. apathy ]

gavor · « **Reply #6 on:** December 17, 2001, 06:03:00 PM »

Thank god for living in Australia

easymo · « **Reply #7 on:** December 17, 2001, 06:18:00 PM »

There will be a lot of new faces in Washington, if they even bring this crap up.

Raubvogel · « **Reply #8 on:** December 17, 2001, 06:47:00 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by capt. apathy:

along the same logic as it's ok for us to kick your door in and search your house, you got nothing to hide right.

and we're gonna put these camera's on you all the time too, you aint gonna do anything illegal are you.

Huh? What does having your fingerprints on file have to do with kicking my door in? That's stretching an analogy a bit far. Fatty's right (shudder)...stop sniffing lacquer thinner before it's too late. Unless you plan on illegally immigrating to Belgium, I think you'll be ok.

psst...the government can already track you just fine.

That's not the only idea that is gaining momentum. http://www.msnbc.com/news/673869.asp

[ 12-17-2001: Message edited by: Raubvogel ]

streakeagle · « **Reply #9 on:** December 17, 2001, 07:08:00 PM »

If people are law abiding citizens with no prior record, why should our tax money pay the goverment to take our fingerprint/dna information and keep it on file?

The U.S. goverment has my fingerprints and dna because I am ex-military, but for the life of me I don't know why they need it. In case I commit a crime later or die in a catatrophe that complicates identification? If the goverment played it safe and locked me up in a rubber room, they could prevent both from happening.

Of course giving fingerprints and dna doesn't really hurt me, but like banning guns, it is a very important symbol of the kind of government I live under and represents the kind of control and oppression that Communists imposed on every country they seized. Beyond the elements needed to ensure civil rights, fair trade, and national security from foreign threats, I believe less goverment is always better.

Of course Big Brother just wants to make sure we are living happy, healthy, productive lives. Everything our government does is soley for our benefit. They would never have an agenda which superceded our best interest or infringed upon our rights, privacy, or dignity.

Fatty · « **Reply #10 on:** December 17, 2001, 07:15:00 PM »

Now if you want to oppose it on a fiscal, waste of resources reasoning, I'm inclined to support that argument.

But either a streamlining of the driver's license/state id system or expansion of the passport system are not the same as starting an id system from scratch. They should already have your fingerprints at Texas DOT anyway Udie, for that matter.

gavor · « **Reply #11 on:** December 17, 2001, 07:18:00 PM »

Guns are pretty much banned in Australia, and i dont see us becoming communists in the near future. I'd give the government my fingerprints and DNA without another thought. I really dont think they will be using them to track me.
Why is it that this works fine here but everyone in the US is terrified of having their guns taken away or their fingerprints taken?

Maverick · « **Reply #12 on:** December 17, 2001, 07:57:00 PM »

Gavor,

It's because we are a free society based on the rights of the individual as codified in the Constitution of the US. many other governments (including some allegedly free ones) are based on the power resting in the government not in the individual. Typically once a right is removed from an individual it doesn't get returned.

Now as to this situation thjat started the thread. Euro's are fairly used to being in a regimented society as there isn't much distance they can go without crossing an international border. That means they have to have some kind of identity paper, usually a passport. A passport is not an uncommon thing to have in Europe or Britain. Here in the US it is very rare. Why? Because we don't need them to travel for over a thousand miles and go from one end of our continent to the other. we don't have to "ask" permission to travel. If you think a passport is not asking permission, try traveling around Europe without one. BTW it is required for Euro's traveling to the US so we get a little of it here.

I am not surprised that a European politician is postulating the universal ID card. BTW Gavor, since it would be a UNIVERSAL ID card it would apply to you in Austrailia. The best example of the government looking over the shoulder of it's subjects would be Britain right now. I am referring to the massive use of CCTV in major urban areas and sporting events. It actually gets a bit of air time in the US as footage from it is used in some "real crime" documentaries broadcast on The Learning Channel. It gives me the shakes to think that it is considered OK to film citizens without thier consent, knowledge and absent any criminal activity on their part. I hope it NEVER comes here.

gavor · « **Reply #13 on:** December 17, 2001, 09:02:00 PM »

Fine, i dont have a passport as i too can travel thousands of km's without requiring one. If they came out with this Universal card, thats ok by me. Most people leave enough traces of what they do, where and when through credit cards and the like. I havent heard much about this universal card but from what I gather it sounds quite acceptable. If theres one Universal ID for everyone, cool. Sure makes life easy at places that require it, just hand over the card and viola. I dont care if this means the all powerful government can track me. If i dont hijack one of their planes or steal some Armani suits then I have nothing to fear.

What I dont understand if this irrational fear so many US citizens have of being identified or being tracked or having their 'rights' taken away. Our society is based on the freedom of each person in a similar way to the US society. So how come when guns were banned only a minority made a fuss? And how come they went quiet real quick? I'd say they found out that you dont need a gun to be an individual.

Lastly, the issue with the cameras. I think we have similar situations here in my home town. So what? Its a tiny bit unnerving for about 1 minute then I realised that noone could just run out and attack me without being caught on camera. Know what? I havent been attacked yet. And if i dont go looking for these cameras and I dont kick, stab, punch, steal, shoot, vandalise etc etc I probably wont even know the cameras are there.

So explain to me whats so scary about these cards and cameras? I've never once in my lifetime felt stifled or infringed upon, and i'm no goody two-shoes either.

G

[ 12-17-2001: Message edited by: Gavor ]

easymo · « **Reply #14 on:** December 17, 2001, 09:27:00 PM »

What I don't understand if this irrational fear so many US citizens have of being identified or being tracked or having their 'rights' taken away"

First of all these are rights, not privileges. Big difference. Secondly we are decedent from people that would routinely trade security for personal freedom. Its in our blood. We are born with it.