Author Topic: Dan: Questions P-51 C No. 118 of the 76th FS "Black Pontiack" (Read 1277 times)

TexMurphy · « **on:** August 29, 2005, 06:02:21 AM »

Hia Dan,

A squadie of Knite and me has requested if one of us could skin the "Pontiac".

Im wondering if you have any more information on this bird. Maybe even a profile of it. If not do you know what color the antiglare on the nose could be? black? Olive Dab? Some other color?

Tex

Delirium · « **Reply #1 on:** August 29, 2005, 04:07:06 PM »

Unfortunately, I don't have any photos of that bird, so I can't help you. Maybe one of the other 51 gents will know.

Dan will be gone for some time, for family issues.

Wolf14 · « **Reply #2 on:** September 07, 2005, 09:38:56 PM »

Is this like the only existing picture of this squads markings? I figured with all that is out there on the internet, there would hopefully be more.

Guppy35 · « **Reply #3 on:** September 07, 2005, 10:13:21 PM »

Nothing in my stuff on that particular marking. No profiles, no photos that I can find. I wonder if it was more of a personal marking. I know they say it's a squadron marking, but it doesn't show up anywhere else.

Anti-glare would be olive drab.

Sorry bout that. I'll keep looking

Knite · « **Reply #4 on:** September 08, 2005, 09:25:51 AM »

No need to apologize Guppy =) You are already more of a help than you have to be, and we all really appreciate it.

Fencer51 · « **Reply #5 on:** September 08, 2005, 11:01:08 AM »

Being a P-51 Mustang nerd, let me check my references when I get home. I will get back to you.

Cheers,

Fencer
AW 1990-1997
ID 1386

Fencer51 · « **Reply #6 on:** September 08, 2005, 05:24:11 PM »

Here is what I have. Picture of 2 Ds and 1 B/C with the same tail markings. Described as 76th FS in China.

A close up of the tail.

For those of you that don't know me, I was Fencer in AW from 1990 til 1997 or so. I flew the P-51D back then and was darn near the only person that did. I spent some time at the Air Force Museum doing research on flight test data for various aircraft and sent that information to Kesmai. It was instrumental in their update of their flight models in 1991-92. I know planes and have an extensive library of aircraft books.

I just recently started flying AH2 and desperately want some different P-51B and P-51D skins to fly.

I understand that Guppy has been doing an excellent job getting people information on aircraft and markings. I will do my best to assist where his library does not have the information.

Cheers,

Fencer
AW 1990-1997
ID# 1386
"When you are out of Mustangs, You are out of fighters!"

Guppy35 · « **Reply #7 on:** September 08, 2005, 05:46:57 PM »

Go get em Fencer

The more help the merrier.

Curious as to which 51 book that is with the China Mustangs?

Wolf14 · « **Reply #8 on:** September 08, 2005, 06:05:44 PM »

Sweet thank you Fencer.

I always love to see the stuff Guppy comes up with when somebody has a question.

Now I cant wait to see what stuff both of yall come up with.

Now the big question..........What was on the left engine cowling of No.118? Was it "Black Pontiac" or was it something else? The pic description describes the indian symbol as the "Black Pontiac" but it doesnt say it is what the planes name is.

Also what is that hanging off the left wing of "Big Dog"? Looks like a wing mounted cannon of some sorts.

Fencer51 · « **Reply #9 on:** September 08, 2005, 08:35:36 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Wolf14

Now the big question..........What was on the left engine cowling of No.118? Was it "Black Pontiac" or was it something else? The pic description describes the indian symbol as the "Black Pontiac" but it doesnt say it is what the planes name is.

Also what is that hanging off the left wing of "Big Dog"? Looks like a wing mounted cannon of some sorts.

I am not sure what the name of 118 was. I will keep digging and see if I have anything else.

I doubt that is a cannon, as the pylon would not be rated for the recoil. However my guess is that it's a 250lb bomb with an extended fuse. However I must admitt I have never seen a extended fuse on a WW2 bomb that I can remember. Definately not a rocket and not the rail for a rocket.

Quote

Originally posted by Guppy35
Go get em Fencer The more help the merrier.

Curious as to which 51 book that is with the China Mustangs?

Thank's Guppy. I was sorry to hear of your recent loss, my condolances to you and your family.

The book is "Combat Profile: Mustang, The P-51 Merlin Mustang in World War 2" by Roger A Freeman. (Yes that Roger Freeman of the Mighty Eighth) ISBN#:0 7110 1807 3
published in 1989 by Ian Allen Ltd, London. Distributed in the USA by Motor Books International.

Cheers!

Fencer
AW 1990-1997
ID# 1386
"When you are out of Mustangs, You are out of fighters!"

Guppy35 · « **Reply #10 on:** September 09, 2005, 12:30:12 AM »

Looks like another book to add to the list of those to get someday

I'm a closet 4th FG junkie having learned about Don Gentile, Johnny Godfrey, Duane Beeson and Don Blakslee when I was very young.

I have most of the 4th FG books, although not Godfrey's book yet or the recent one on Kidd Hofer.

My dream Mustangs were always 4th birds as well. When I started teaching myself to do profiles I started with 4th FG 51s. These aren't shaded, and I've never really figured out natural metal, but I kinda like em anyway.

I like the look of the 44 red nose better then the swept under look of the later style

Knite · « **Reply #11 on:** September 09, 2005, 09:25:13 PM »

Wow Fencer, that's some great stuff =)

Let me make sure I understand the schemes on these properly...

Aircraft = all natural metal, except for silver paint on the wings and elevator (not including the aerialons, flaps, or elevators thsmeselves).
Anti-Glare = Olive Drab
Pontiac = Black?

I haven't had a lot of luck finding more, but I'll keep looking =)

Fencer51 · « **Reply #12 on:** September 10, 2005, 02:45:52 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Guppy35
Looks like another book to add to the list of those to get someday

I'm a closet 4th FG junkie having learned about Don Gentile, Johnny Godfrey, Duane Beeson and Don Blakslee when I was very young.

I have most of the 4th FG books, although not Godfrey's book yet or the recent one on Kidd Hofer.

My dream Mustangs were always 4th birds as well. When I started teaching myself to do profiles I started with 4th FG 51s. These aren't shaded, and I've never really figured out natural metal, but I kinda like em anyway.

I like the look of the 44 red nose better then the swept under look of the later style

Yeah I just love the 4th FG. I did not know about Hofer's book nor Godfrey's. I will have to find them. I have 1000 Destroyed by Fred Glover which is wonderful. I was less than thrilled with Escort to Berlin by Ethell, but its good for information. Tumult in the Clouds by Goodson is also very good. I seemed to have loaned that one out at one time or another and don't have it anymore.

Love the profiles! I also like the later war swept back red better.

My favorite mustang is James Goodson's. I got a print about 12 years ago at the AFM and it is in my office at work, along with a large poster of "Duchess". I just found a website that has 4th FG art for sale. I think I might have to get a couple more prints.

TexMurphy · « **Reply #13 on:** May 29, 2006, 03:50:05 AM »

Bump...

Fencer51 & Guppy

Got any more info on this?

Fencer can you bring the pics you posted earlier in this thread back to life?

Tex.

TexMurphy · « **Reply #14 on:** May 29, 2006, 12:59:02 PM »

Anyone got an idea what that spinner could have been?

Red and Yellow??

Tex