China runs 2nd test of long-range missile

[Maverick]

The one thing I find ironic about the chinese and the clinton administration is that the chinese helped fund it. Now why do you suppose clinton wanted to insure that china had "most favored nation" trade status.....

Mav

[TheWobble]

Not to be over optimistic but something tells me that we are quite safe from ICBM's

note that a while back there was much talk of lasers and particle beams and how they could be used to down ICBMS and then all the sudden You stopped hearing anything about it...well think back a littel further to a article on something called "stealth technology" and you will see that for a while it was a hot topic and then it too suddenly dropped off the face of the earth. then desert storm come along and uh ho what the hell is that!!? a stealt plane!..or 2

I have no hard evidence that this is the same but i look at how long stealth technology was kept secret, it was a LONG time and the only reason it was unveiled when it was is because of the Gulf War, if it wasnt for that i really doubt any of us would know the phrases B2 Spirit, or F-117 nighthawk.  I just think that we are better taken care of than we know.  At least i hope so.

[Nath-BDP]

Umm we sold secrets to the chinese because we already have defense for the secrets we sold to them.    If they launch nukes against us they will be destroyed by anti ICBM systems, its all a ploy to make the Chinese do something stupid so we can gain control over their country.  

[RAM]

 

Originally posted by TheWobble:
I have no hard evidence that this is the same but i look at how long stealth technology was kept secret, it was a LONG time and the only reason it was unveiled when it was is because of the Gulf War, if it wasnt for that i really doubt any of us would know the phrases B2 Spirit, or F-117 nighthawk.  I just think that we are better taken care of than we know.  At least i hope so.

The existence of the F-117 nighthawk was admitted in public, and was official since 1984. Only 4 years after making it into service or less, IIRC.

The F-117's first operation was over Panama, during the US intervention in 1989, not on the gulf war.

The B-2 was of public existence before making it to the air the first time.

And, to kill your confidence, it isnt the same to design a plane in secrecy than to develop an anti-ICBM technology.

 Firstly because if it is going to be a laser technology it will need material put in orbit, and will be difficult to hide.

 Secondly because when there is a secret development going on, people know that "something" is being worked on. Lockheed's "Skunk Works" developed many "secret" planes in their moment, and while one was in develop, people knew that a new plane was being designed. not the type nor the characteristics, but that there was something being worked on.
A program like this would need a very dedicated effort to produce any sound results, meaning that the developer should invest a lot of work and money on a program that they wont be able to explain.
There is no news of something like that going on last years.

Even more, 20 years ago many things were kept in secret, today simply not. The F-22 development is almost of public knowledge, 20 years ago this plane's information would be entirely classified. Not so today.

 If an anti-ICBM system was to be developed today, for sure people would know it.

And last, and by far the most important thing...the anti ICBM missile system, or the "star Wars" technology necessary for an anti-ICBM system, would have an astronomical cost. The F-22 has been developed by two companies with almost full dedication, and the cost has been incredible.

So...where did the funds to the anti-ICBM technology came from? Who gave the "go ahead" order?? (I believe that US congress has to aprove the bugdet for any project like this, and I doubt they would do it with such a costy program after they almost killed the F-22).

Wake up. There is no anti ICBM system in USA so far. And I doubt ever there is any serious work done on it since the 80s (I think that the SALT pacts forbidden such investigations, am I wrong?)


-----------------------------------------
Nath, taking as true that USA has an anti-ICBM system (wich as you may have read is highly unlikely)... what if ONE of the missiles makes it thru?. What if ONE missile avoids the Hypotetic anti-ICBM system and falls in the middle of L.A.?...remember, ballistic missiles can't miss, as they are "guided" by phisical laws...guided anti-ICBM missiles CAN miss.

WE all heard the wonderful anti-missile the Patriot was. I am sure that Israel didnt thought the same in 1991.

Thing is, if a SCUD passes the anti missile barrage, there is one conventional missile exploding in the middle of a city. Bad but affordable

IF an ICBM passes the anti missile barrage, millions of people are going to die.  unnaceptable.

Again if you feel secure, better for yah...you are in the line of fire.

I am not. Its quite ironic that I'm worried about your lifes when you are not about your own's...




[This message has been edited by RAM (edited 12-13-2000).]

[LJK Raubvogel]

Well RAM, I'm glad you seem to know more about our national security than we do. I'm not saying we have an anti-missile system, but you can bet that there are weapons systems being developed that Congress has no clue of.

And on a side note, let a Desert Storm vet clear up any misconceptions you may have about the effectiveness of Patriot missiles. The missiles were not designed to destroy the incoming missile. They were designed to break it up and alter its course. In a normal battlefield situation, this is good enough to ensure that the missile lands away from its intended target, and lands harmlessly in an open space. The missiles weren't intended to protect major population centers. In a densely populated area, even if you knock the missile off course, the warhead can still land intact in a populated area.

I watched Patriot interceptions first-hand, and I can say that I never saw a Scud make it past a Patriot. Some of them still managed to  detonate on impact, but they were away from our encampment.

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LJK_Raubvogel
LuftJägerKorps

 

[This message has been edited by LJK Raubvogel (edited 12-13-2000).]

[Dnil]

RAM,

Have you served in the US military?  or any military for that matter?  

There is sooo much that goes on that the general public does not know about.

hint on my earlier post...remember the Kitthawk fly over?  ummm that wasnt the only "incident".

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Dnil---Skyhawk until I get Dnil back
Maj. 900th Bloody Jaguars
Part time aircraft restorer. www.kingwoodcable.com/jheuer

[Ripsnort]

You got that right Dnil. I could be jailed for reveiling any further explanation.

[Nath-BDP]

RAM posts alot without realy thinking, as we all know, and most of his 'information' ends up being incorrect.

p.s. I don't live in LA, all those fake Hollywood celebs could die for all I care.

[Nath-BDP]

F-117 development started in 1976.

The first F-117 trial aircraft flew in June of '81.

F-117s were delivered to the USAF in '83.

Until November 1988 the USAF denied existance of the F-117.

[This message has been edited by Nath-BDP (edited 12-13-2000).]

[Nath-BDP]

Don't go by IIRC next time, RAM, look it up.  This time you were waaaaaay off.  

[CavemanJ]

 

Originally posted by Ripsnort:
You got that right Dnil. I could be jailed for reveiling any further explanation.

That's putting it politely.  They'd lock us in a little room and simply throw room away  
And none of the little rooms would end up remotely close to each other either.


As far as funding goes, a popular public theory is that the funds are buried in the anual operating budgets of the service doing the research, like the Chair Force for the F-117s and B2s.  Dinnae if that's how it works or not, but better believe if it's important enough it will be funded.  As far as almost killing the F22 goes, there are several aircraft already in the inventory and in front line service that can perform the same jobs more efficiently.  Biggest advantage the Raptor has (that's what they call it, right?   ) is it's low observability factor, which can be a deciding factor in a fight especially when you can lock up a bandit 10nm farther out than he can aquire a lock on you because of stealth technologies.  But it's almost a case of fixing something that ain't broke.

[RAM]

 

Originally posted by Nath-BDP:
Don't go by IIRC next time, RAM, look it up.  This time you were waaaaaay off.  

Nath...got it wrong, yup, but has been a long long time since I last took a look at any info on the F-117, and I dont have it at hand right now (been too much busy with prop planes lately). I admitted that I could have that wrong, so I dont feel ashamed  

Thing is, after 4 years of deployement the F117 existance was made public. It was not on Desert Storm, but in 1989 when they first fighted, over Panama.

And the B-2 was known by the public before the first of them took off.

So, TheWobble's affirmations were wrong.


Raub...well I understand your statement about the Patriot-Scud thing.Seems I got that wrong too... But bassically supports what I am saying, if you cant destroy a SCUD, how can you destroy a ballistic warhead diving towards the earth at ultrasonic speeds?.

Dnil, I have to admit this, I have no idea on what are you talking about  . The kittyhawk flyover?...what was that?.

And by last, well I dont pretend to know more about US national security than any of you  . I only say that, until the date,I thought that the congress has a comitee that has power over ALL Secret project financiations. I got that wrong, too?...fine, one thing more I learnt today  

Really I find refreshing that you think you are, or will be in the near future, more or less safe against ballistic missiles. I really hope you are all right  

[Wanker]

I wonder if we could persuade the Chinese to use Florida as the next test target?

[AKDejaVu]

All the talk about ICBM defense systems makes me chuckle.

We've been worried about ICBMs since the late 50's/early 60's.  Do you seriously believe there haven't been any real defenses developed for them yet?

As for comparing aircraft developement with defense developement... how many times do you have to take a ground based laser up for a test flight?  Don't underestemate the ability for the truly dedicated to keep things secret.

And... are you aware of the capability of industrial lasers these days?  I currently work with one capable of downing small aircraft.  Its for a purely industrial use, but its potential is staggering.  I guess its just hard for me to believe there wouldn't be a better one out there.

AKDejaVu

[AKDejaVu]

 

I wonder if we could persuade the Chinese to use Florida as the next test target?

LOL! I could just see it now:

GWBjr: "Give up Beijin for L.A.?... we can live with that"
China: Stunned silence
GWBjr: "Do you have anything to could reach Florida too?  We'd let you have that one for free."

AKDejaVu