B-29 Super Fortress

[Iron_Cross]

Ha! Your still in here arguing against me? What part of that 'I dont care about this' didnt you understand? I really hit the nail on the head with that 'childish' quip. 

OOOH! I'm sorry, that was the wrong answer.  Another ad hominum attack has completely defeated your argument for adding the B-29 and atom bomb to Aces High II.  Thanks for playing, see you next time on Logical Debates.

Let me put it simply for you.  Since your only attacking me, and not the issues I have put forth against the addition of the B-29 and atom bomb, you have totally failed to support your position, and the icy wind of logic has blown down your house of cards.  Seriously, your rebuttals are like a five year old saying, "Well, your a poopie head."  Who is the one being childish?  Rebut the issues, don't stoop to ad hominum attacks.

[uberslet]

Just remember that the nukes were dropped from close to the B-29's max service altitude. And the delivery planes STILL had to haul-ass and maneuver wildly to escape the blast radius as soon as the bomb was released.

was reading something in a magazine about the drops. Enola Gay was 10 miles from where she dropped her bomb and at that altitude, and 10 miles from drop site she recieved a 6G impact from the explosion. i know nothing about B19's so i dont know how high the service cieling was, but i know it was wayyyyy up there for that time.

[Iron_Cross]

50,000 feet plus IIRC.  There is nothing in the present inventory in AHII that can climb that high.  Therefore, Chalenge, has tried to introduce an orbital bombardment platform in to the game, plus any nuke will be used to strike from orbit in this way.  Not fun by any stretch of the imagination.

[Chalenge]

50,000 feet plus IIRC.  There is nothing in the present inventory in AHII that can climb that high.  Therefore, Chalenge, has tried to introduce an orbital bombardment platform in to the game, plus any nuke will be used to strike from orbit in this way.  Not fun by any stretch of the imagination.

You dont recall correctly. You probably never knew any facts or details about the B-29. A ridiculous and childish reply by you I might add.

To my knowledge, a troll is someone posting blatantly inflammatory topics on the BBS, and attacking anyone who disagrees, or points out the fallacy of the topic.

No a troll is someone just like you. Someone that steps in and tries to derail a topic of discussion and then continues to insult and berate and even PM images (like you did today).

And then you continue to TROLL by posting misinformation about bombs killing friendlies and B29s that go above 50k. No B29 ever went 50k.

Read the forum rules for once not that it will matter for am done responding to this blatant troll.

[glock89]

Didn't the B-29 could go up to 45K i think?

[Saxman]

Service ceiling ~35,000ft

[titanic3]

Tell that to the rooks.

[glock89]

Service ceiling ~35,000ft

Oh thank you for that info.

[Iron_Cross]

Service ceiling ~35,000ft

Thank you for that Saxman. 

Now back to the topic.

Chalenge, as to the bombs not hurting friendlies.  If you read through my posts completely, not just the first sentence of each paragraph like you are apparently doing, I did apologize for my lack of knowledge on that particular subject.  I have never carpet-bombed TT like you, so I didn't know that bombs don't kill friendlies, so to continue attacking me for it is just you trying to derail the subject at hand. 

The subject at hand is you wanting an almost un-intercept able bomber, with a huge payload, and capable of delivering an atom bomb correct?  In this thread I have continued to state my views, that the bomber would unbalance MA play, and that the atom bomb, you also want added, would further unbalance MA play.  I have never deviated from this or tried to derail this topic.  You refuse to debate the subject, have not countered any of the points I try to bring up, and only attack me. 

I have stayed on topic.  You have only attacked me, and try mightily to derail the topic by calling me childish, and a troll.

No a troll is someone just like you. Someone that steps in and tries to derail a topic of discussion and then continues to insult and berate...

Your own words.  You sir, are the one insulting and berating me, calling me childish and a troll.

Counter these points, which are all on topic, and all I've been trying to get you to discuss:

1.  The bomber would be almost unintercept able.  With a max true airspeed of ~350MPH only the lucky would be able to catch it.

2.  The large payload will unbalance MA play.  A single bomber will be able to shut down even a large field all on it's own.

3.  The atom bomb, no matter the restrictions placed on it, will ultimately be used inappropriately, to ruin the fun play in the MA.

[glock89]

That is my point. We get the He-111 then you get the B-29 look unfair.

[Chalenge]

My point in making this post was to show a way the B-29 could be introduced that would and does make sense.

So far all of the counter-arguments have fallen short and given the appearance of comedic images to help boister weak arguments fallen even further short in argument strength.

The figures on this plane are disputable. A lot of bad information is out there. Many simulation examples disagree strongly on the details of sustainable altitudes. Most accept that the B29 could not reach 25000 feet while loaded with bombs. Boeings published records state a 'Combat Ceiling' of 36400 feet and a 'Service Ceiling' of 23950... therefore:

The following airplanes could easily catch the B-29 at 23950 feet (the highest it could go with 'go-home' fuel and a full bomb load). On the subject of bomb loads the B-29 could carry 21000 pounds which is not earth shattering because even in AHII with bomb patterns as easy as they are it takes a pattern/salvo 2 to drop a hangar (thats ten (10) hangars for the math challenged). Any F4U, the P38s, the P51s, the P47s, the 262, the 163, Ta152, N1K2, 190D9 , Typhoon, Tempest, the 109K4 (at least) and Spit 14 (although why a spit I dont know) and probably more airplanes too could easily catch it at that altitude. The highest a B-29 could go with fuel (no bombs) and full crew and gun belts is 36400 feet.

Once its empty who cares? Follow it until it comes down and then kill it.

This plane is not 'uber' and it can easily be shot down. Dont let the propaganda of the Superfortress fool you. A lot of brave Americans died serving in this plane and it very well deserves a spot in our memories if not the virtual skies. We dont 'have' to have it.

Put this plane in the game unperked and I promise you I will shoot down dozens in the first month alone. Perk it and it will be harder to find but not any harder to kill.

[Saxman]

Chalenge,

I think using the 163 and 262 as examples of planes that can catch the 29 is a bit redundant.

Certainly it's unlikely a fully loaded Superfortress could reach her maximum ceiling, but one REALLY important thing to remember about the B-29:

As tough as fast bombers like the B-26 can be to fight when their formations can run at max power without risk of losing drones at level flight, the B-29 is going to be even WORSE. She has a top speed in excess of 350mph LEVEL flight at altitude. While the F4Us, P-38s, 51s and 47s, N1K2, Dora, Typhoon, Tempest, K4 and Spit XIV can catch her at altitude, the B-29 is only going to give you one or two passes before you're out of energy and wallowing in her rear arc (with a pair of Ma Deuces and a 20mm stinger in the tail gunner's position). Imagine this if B-29s can utilize formations. With 999000 in the gunner's position!

She's not going to be unbeatable by any stretch of the imagination, but with the way formations are abused in the game: Running max power all the way is going to make her SERIOUSLY overpowered.

Oh, and  remember to multiply your bombload by three for formations. That's 63,000lbs a B-29 formation can roll out. Also, remember it takes 3000lbs (not 2000) of ordinance to drop a hangar. However with a full formation salvo 1 should be sufficient (I can do it in B-24s in the mains). That's 21 hangars a capable bomber pilot could drop from a B-29.

[macerxgp]

Give me an Ohka and you can have your damn B-29.

But I'm hitting your BH the second I get a suicide bomb.

[Saxman]

Incidentally, even if HTC DID restrict the B-29's loadout to only a little more than the Lancaster you're still looking at a bomber close to 100mph faster, twice the rate of climb and FAR more heavily armed with 8-10 .50cal in the powered turrets and the 2 .50cal + 1 20mm cannon in the tail vs 4 .303s in the turrets and 2 .50cal in the tail on the Lancaster

[Iron_Cross]

Saxman, has the right of it.  I occasionally take Boston III's up.  They are pretty speedy for a bomber, and at 15k, I usually am in, dumped my load, and out, before anyone has a chance to shoot me down.  Sure I've been shot down in the Boston, but it is usually after I've killed the target I was after.  After my target is down anything after, that happens to me, is meaningless.  Pretty Zen, but accurate for the MA.  I've taken out my target, getting shot down after that just means I just get to up another plane faster.  The times I've been killed before I've dropped my target, the interceptors have been at least at my altitude.  That is what I meant by only the lucky would be able to catch the bomber, before it has unloaded it's ordinance.  

The amount of ordinance is another issue I have with the bomber being introduced into the MA.  By itself it can drop 7 hangars, but with formations enabled that number would jump to 21 hangars.  Only the Lancaster has anywhere near the amount of ordinance at 14k.  That is enough for 4 hangars or 14 with formations.  We already see a lot of abuse of the Lancaster in the MA.  The only thing holding back the Lancaster being really abused is its defense package.  The Lancaster has pretty weak defenses, and is pretty slow, this is not the case with the B-29.  Everything I see, points to the B-29 being an overly abused monster bomber in the MA if introduced.  The only scenarios I foresee playing out in the MA are ones where it is running at maximum altitude carpetbombing the hangars of bases where good furballs are happening, like the Lancaster is presently.