Setup for September 2

[Oldman731]

THE BIG SHOW

Oct-44 to May-45

Background: After a brief period protecting the Normandy coasts and a summer given over to the V-1 hunt, at the end of September 1944, RAF No. 3, 56, 80, 274 and 486 Squadrons left Great Britain for Volkel in the Netherlands to constitute Wing No. 122. Volkel would become the home base for this Wing during during long months. Their mission was to procure and maintain air superiority over Germany, the Tempest proving to be the only British fighter to have the performance and range for this mission. This would be the period of glory for the Hawker fighter, which would accumulate success and victory at the price of high losses, due in great part to an often murderous and always dreaded flak.

122 Wing was later supported by 135 Wing (composed of No. 33 and 222 Squadrons, flying Tempests) at the end of February 1945. No. 274 was added later. No.122 Wing deployed in Germany from April, 1945, where it would fight until the agony of the Third Reich.

A young Free French pilot joined at the end of February for his third turn of operations with the 122 Wing in the 274 Squadron, then after the 56 and 3 Squadrons, and by the end of April, commanded the whole Wing. He became famous by giving us an epic of a remarkable literary quality. This mission generator allows you to reconstitute missions keeping close to the gasping and murderous mood of The Big Show, and to engage your Tempests in unforgettable sorties.

Map- Rhine

Planes

Allied
P47D
P47N
P51D
Spit IX
Tempest
B24
Lancaster


Axis
109G6
109G10
TA152
190A8
190D9
Ta152
Me262
JU87
JU88

Radar
Combat Theater standard for that era
1945 || Tower 158400 | Sector 237600
Field ack (the low-level stuff): .5 (half MA)
Puffy ack: .25 (we hates it)
Kill shooter off
Fuel burn 1.5
Base capture is normal, but may be suspended if
 abused.

Historical Clarifications
The Bf 109K-4 and the FW 190D-9 entered in service only at the end of December 1944.
The Tempest used bombs only the last day of the operations and never the rockets.
The famous operation "BODENPLATTE" (the Luftwaffe raid on the Allied airfields 1-Jan-45) didn't attack the Wing 122 airfield.
In early March, the ground strikes were suspended because of high losses, but they resumed from the end of this month.
17-Mar-45, No. 274 Squadron left the 122 Wing to join the 135 Wing (No. 33 and 222 Squadrons, operational on Tempest since the 24 February).
Beginning April 1945, the 122 Wing set up in Germany on the Rheine-Hopsten (the ancient Me 262 base).
From 1 to 16 April, No. 3 Squadron went to England for gunnery training and is absent during this period.
20-Apr-45, No. 80 Squadron retired from the operation.
26-Apr-45, the 122 Wing set up on Fassberg.
4-May-45 was the last day of combat; only the 33 Squadron (belonging to the 135 Wing) had the occasion this day to use for the first and the last time the bombs in operations on Tempest during the war.

Setup by 68KO, implemented by Oldman

[Grits]

LOL...I get first shot...

What about the Spit XIV?

[tikky]

2 easy suggestions

remove P-47N (!!!)

add spitfire XIV

[Grits]

Why remove the P-47N? Its good, but its not that good.

[storch]

no rocket?  no rocket!!!!?????!!!!! thisa is bogus, gimme the rocket at all bases unperked.

[Oldman731]

Some changes:

Spit 9 morphed into the 14.

B-26 added.  I remember Galland's description of attacking a formation of them at war's end.

Arado added for Germans.  Hey, if it brings in extra people, why not?

Presently there is no base limitation on what planes are available.  We'll see how it works.  I didn't divide the front up because I thought 68KO wanted to emphasize British end-of-war operations.

P-47N remains, as a rough substitute for the 56th FG's Ms.

There are some possibilities here for people who are interested in organizing escorted bombing missions - either hi-level or medium.  Just thought I'd mention it.

- oldman

[storch]

Originally posted by Oldman731
Some changes:

Spit 9 morphed into the 14.

B-26 added.  I remember Galland's description of attacking a formation of them at war's end.

Arado added for Germans.  Hey, if it brings in extra people, why not?

Presently there is no base limitation on what planes are available.  We'll see how it works.  I didn't divide the front up because I thought 68KO wanted to emphasize British end-of-war operations.

P-47N remains, as a rough substitute for the 56th FG's Ms.

There are some possibilities here for people who are interested in organizing escorted bombing missions - either hi-level or medium.  Just thought I'd mention it.

- oldman

good idea the XIV gets very little CT time as do the other late wars.

[Wotan]

The Bf 109K-4 and the FW 190D-9 entered in service only at the end of December 1944.

The D-9 was first delivered to III./JG54 in September '44.

The K-4 entered service with III./JG 4, Stab, I, II, III, IV./JG 27 and II./JG 77 in October 1944.

(source: Prien & Rodeike, H. Valtonen)

P-47N remains, as a rough substitute for the 56th FG's Ms.

The P47M saw little combat at all in Europe.

[Oldman731]

Originally posted by Wotan
The D-9 was first delivered to III./JG54 in September '44.

The K-4 entered service with III./JG 4, Stab, I, II, III, IV./JG 27 and II./JG 77 in October 1944.

(source: Prien & Rodeike, H. Valtonen)

...er...your point?  As near as I can tell from 68KO's write-up, this setup covers the period from the fall of '44 through the end of the war.

The P47M saw little combat at all in Europe. [/B]

Heh.  The Ta152, Arado 234 and Me-262 also saw little combat at all in Europe.

Bet they see more this week, though.

- oldman

[Wotan]

...er...your point?

Well you typed:

Historical Clarifications

Well your (or whoevers) 'clarifications' were wrong and I posted correct info...

Arado 234 and Me-262

Nonsense the 234 was flying plenty of sorties both in Recon role and as a light fast bomber, so was the 262. In fact you say Galland saw B-26s late in the way, yeah he happened to be in a 262.

The 262 entered service in July '44 with Erprobungskommando 262.

As for the Ta-152 you aren't subbing a plane that was never in Europe for a plane that was completely insignificant in Europe. You creating something that 'never was'.

You wrote:

P-47N remains, as a rough substitute for the 56th FG's Ms.

This once again goes back to the:

Historical Clarifications

Whatever you do with that info is up to you.

[Squire]

I think the best yardstick for inclusion has always been the following (disagree if you like):

Squadron sized (@12) operational, combat unit "in theater, first combat mission" date.  

Many times we trip over ourselves with varying yardsticks about intro dates with differing criteria.

As for the Me 262, I would probably go with Kommando Nowotny in October 1944, using the above.

When did the 56th FG get P-47Ms into action? (dont have the info). I know the P-47N was PTO only. In fairness the Ta152 was a very rare bird as well, perhaps the rarest, in a piston engined fighter deployed in WW2 in the ETO.  

None of the above has zip to do with the setup, just looking to yak about intro dates. The O'Club is getting too weird.

[Soulyss]

P-38?

[Wotan]

When did the 56th FG get P-47Ms into action? (dont have the info). I know the P-47N was PTO only. In fairness the Ta152 was a very rare bird as well, perhaps the rarest, in a piston engined fighter deployed in WW2 in the ETO.

I agree that the Ta-152 was the rarest of piston engined fighters.

In Reschke's book he states they never had more then 16.

There were only like 130-150 P-47Ms made. Even fewer went to 56th and even fewer actually flew combat sorties. These planes had issues and the 56th continued to the fly D variants even after getting P-47Ms. The P-47M was certainly a 'rare bird' as well.

However, back to my point. There is no 'rough substitute' for the Ta-152. its there or it isn't. There is no P-47M in AH and as such a rare bird is subbed with an even rarer bird (at least in WETO).

Whether or not either of these planes are included in a CT set up is up to the CT CMs and CT community.

As for the Me 262, I would probably go with Kommando Nowotny in October 1944, using the above.

That's perfectly reasonable but I was only correcting what I read under the guise of:

Historical Clarifications

Anyway I don't 'belong' in this forum so I will 'move along'.

[Grits]

I dont mind your input Wotan.

As for planes, I used to be picky on when planes should or should not be used. Now, so few people fly the CT, I think that if it was close to the period, and adding a plane does not upset play balance it is worth adding it if it might bring in one more person during the setup.

[Oldman731]

Originally posted by Grits
I dont mind your input Wotan.

As for planes, I used to be picky on when planes should or should not be used. Now, so few people fly the CT, I think that if it was close to the period, and adding a plane does not upset play balance it is worth adding it if it might bring in one more person during the setup.

Me, too.  Didn't intend to sound grouchy.  We work with the tools we have, and historical accuracy is not the entire equation.  AH's plane set doesn't currently allow historical accuracy, as we all know, and in many circumstances a 100% accurate setup would be unplayable for one side.

That said, we appreciate the input, Wotan.  Don't be a stranger.  Come fly with us to see what you think.

- oldman