Author Topic: Its really sad  (Read 2242 times)

Offline Ripsnort

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Its really sad
« Reply #15 on: September 02, 2005, 09:32:04 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Skydancer
Indeed but somewhere down the line someone has to take responsibility for the failure! Otherwise it will happen again and again. Sea levelsd are set to rise don't ya know and Europe will face that too. The Dutch ought to be watching pretty closely and learning how not to manage the situation !

Historically speaking, buying that area from the French, thats where the failure should lay, as this was designed by Mother Nature to be a swamp.

Offline Skydancer

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« Reply #16 on: September 02, 2005, 09:37:30 AM »
You have a point Rip.

Lazs what do you pay your taxes for?

Offline Curval

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« Reply #17 on: September 02, 2005, 09:43:38 AM »
The Dutch aren't likely to experience a tropical storm let alone a hurricane any time soon Sky.
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Offline Skydancer

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« Reply #18 on: September 02, 2005, 09:50:13 AM »
Trueish, though 1953 was pretty bad for them and us!

http://www.geographypages.co.uk/1953floods.htm

Some stats at the bottom of the page.

So you see it does happen here too and will get worse as sea levels rise. There is already a debate about what to do on our east coast, in the fens area. Whether to continue to defend or leave the area and progressively let it re flood.

Offline lazs2

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« Reply #19 on: September 02, 2005, 10:14:31 AM »
skyprancer... I pay my taxes so that I won't have a hoard of wannnabe imitatation ninjas armed with machine guns storming my "compound".    I do not expect my government to even live up to their investment programs (SS, medicare) that they extorted from me much less help me out in a disaster.

I pay insurance for that kinda stuff... I carry a gun for the protection stuff and I let em extort taxes from me for everything else that I have no use for because I have no choice.

I would not welcome the ninjas if I had property in the area.... i would defend it if I could and cash in the insurance if I couldn't...

What would you expect the government to do for me?

lazs

Offline Skydancer

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« Reply #20 on: September 02, 2005, 10:15:25 AM »
Deal effectively with a major disaster for one!

Offline lazs2

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« Reply #21 on: September 02, 2005, 10:17:48 AM »
not a very concise answer eh what old bean?   How would you expect them to spend the money they extorted from me to help me??    What could they do for me that I, or my friends and insurance company can not?

lazs

Offline Krusher

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« Reply #22 on: September 02, 2005, 10:26:35 AM »
The area affected is approximately 95,000 sq miles, larger than some countries, the UK for example (I believe) is less than that size wise.

We have 2 million people who live in the New Orleans area alone, not counting the areas hit in Mississippi and Alabama.  We have 500 to 750,000 people who are still in the area. How many busses, helicopters, boats, trucks do you need to feed, water, move etc that many people?  This isn't even counting the ones who fled early like they should and are now scattered around several states.

The flooded areas have made driving pretty damn tough and they have to bring fuel with them because there is none in the affected areas.  We only have about 200 helicopters in the area with more showing up every day, they need fuel too.  The fuel came from NO and now has to be brought from surrounding states.  Just so you know, it is 1500 miles from El passo Texas to Houston and what 350 or so to NO from there. How the hell long do you think it takes to drive that far.  The flood just happened Tuesday night, its now 3 days later. 248 truckloads of supplies have arrived and guess what, its not even enough for 1 day !  

Just because we are a rich country doesnt mean we can perform miracles.  Today the relief efforts have gotten much better but for cripes sakes its only been a few days cut the USA some slack or just shut the heck up. You are not making any friends with our people suffering while you backseat drive.
« Last Edit: September 02, 2005, 10:56:06 AM by Krusher »

Offline Hangtime

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« Reply #23 on: September 02, 2005, 10:30:00 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Skydancer
See Rule #5


Sky, there are days i find your viewpoint interesting, days i find it humorous.. today I find it distresses me.

It is not the american governments fault. It's an unmitigated natural disaster of near biblical porportions on one of americas oldest cities. I expect that when (not if) the majority of California drops into the Pacific that will be the American governments fault also?

You got any other examples of better than 4,000 helicopter rescues in 48 hours? The delivery of 2 million MRE's, 6 million liters of water in that time frame? Every form of transportation is being utilized.. only one road into the place is still up...  you can't begin to fathom the scope.

Now our media is ramping up it's whiney anchorweenies.. 'where's the help?'. I'm wondering why they just don't shut up and help.. haven't seen them removing any bodies, distributing water, transporting refugees....
« Last Edit: September 02, 2005, 01:58:22 PM by Skuzzy »
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Offline Flit

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« Reply #24 on: September 02, 2005, 10:43:04 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Krusher
The area affected is approximately 100,000 sq miles, larger than some countries, the UK for example (I believe) is less than that size wise.

We have 2 million people who live in the New Orleans area alone, not counting the areas hit in Mississippi and Alabama.  We have 500 to 750,000 people who are still in the area. How many busses, helicopters, boats, trucks do you need to feed, water, move etc that many people?  This isn't even counting the ones who fled early like they should and are now scattered around several states.

The flooded areas have made driving pretty damn tough and they have to bring fuel with them because there is none in the affected areas.  We only have about 200 helicopters in the area with more showing up every day, they need fuel too.  The fuel came from NO and now has to be brought from surrounding states.  Just so you know, it is 1500 miles from El passo Texas to Houston and what 350 or so to NO from there. How the hell long do you think it takes to drive that far.  The flood just happened Tuesday night, its now 3 days later. 248 truckloads of supplies have arrived and guess what, its not even enough for 1 day !  

Just because we are a rich country doesnt mean we can perform miracles.  Today the relief efforts have gotten much better but for cripes sakes its only been a few days cut the USA some slack or just shut the heck up. You are not making any friends with our people suffering while you backseat drive.

 What he said.
 Sky, how quick would your goverment respond if the whole Island of britan somehow got covered with 15 feet of water?
 If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything!

Offline Maverick

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« Reply #25 on: September 02, 2005, 10:53:12 AM »
Let me say a couple things here.

First, Skydancer, thanks for contributing, it is appreciated.

Now as to all those who are complaining about the timing of the response. Here are some things to consider.

Number one get out of the idea that things happen instantly. That is all hollywood, the real life takes time.

Troops have to be mobilized, minimum of 24 hours to just get the damn order authorized and cut to the relevent units. Then during that time the troops have to GET THERE to the mobilization station. If there are no roads, or worse yet, the mobilization station is in the area of the disaster there is no place to mobilize and no equipment to mobilize with. The relevent troops are the National Guard for security and disaster relief. The troops and units in the area that are NOT on deployment overseas due to the troop draw down from earlier, are also effected by the disaster themselves. Some were killed, some are missing, some were evacuated by mandatory order. A major unit in NO is overseas. Secondly you have to have the right KIND of unit available in the area to do something. A civil affairs or psyops unit is not equiped or big enough to do a damn thing there. Posse Commitatis restricts the use of Federal troops for law enforcement. Even Federal troops on full time duty will take a while to get equipment loaded on the appropriate transport which may or may not be good enough to get them into the area, then get it there to do something.

The main roads around the city of NO (which is only ONE SPOT that has been trashed by the hurricane) are damaged or gone. Ground transportation has to use something to get there. When the bridge from I-10 was trashed a major artery in was almost totally cut and has to be evaluated to determine if loaded trucks can use it.

The fleet. Yep the navy has resources on the Eastern coast. Think about it. They have to sail there. Going long distances takes time for ships. Getting the right ones mobilized then transported takes time. Shipping material to the ships takes time. It isn't pre loaded on the boats with crews waiting to move at the speed of sound to deliver it. Then you have to have a freaking port to load large amounts of material. If the roads around the port are trashed how much are you going to deliver? The aircushion vehicles are not designed to travel in streets in neighborhoods to do rescues or spot deliveries especially when the streets are fouled with trees and other debris.

The shooting situation has stopped rescues. Think about it. The crews are there to rescue folks, shooting at them will NOT help them to do that. the gangs doing the rapes robberies and assaults are a major problem to getting help to people. THe "thin veneer" of civilization has already been dropped, if it was there at all for some of those hemorhoids, by these gangs and they are to blame for the cessation of rescues.

Now to everyone. Get off the blame band wagon and have a nice cup of STFU!!! If you want to do something send money to the relief organzation of your choice. Do not go down there, they need professionals and people with the proper equipment to be there to work, not a bunch of no skill no equipment geeks to clog up what roads there are and get in the freaking way.

I understand the governors and mayors frustration. They are in the hot seat and after giving the orders to do something all they can DO is hollar. That's their job to get more stuff, more equipment, more help. It's also all they can do now. They want to help but are out of resources of their own.
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Offline Eagler

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« Reply #26 on: September 02, 2005, 11:02:16 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Ripsnort
Historically speaking, buying that area from the French, thats where the failure should lay, as this was designed by Mother Nature to be a swamp.


it's England's fault really, they lent us the money
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Offline Skydancer

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« Reply #27 on: September 02, 2005, 11:06:27 AM »
Hang.

With respect I can only go on what I'm seeing on my TV screen.

All the major news channels are saying that the response has been shambolic. And most times that is being said by the people of New Orleans that are being interviewed from the top, ( the mayor ) down.

If its otherwise then I'm all the happier for it. What I'm seeing is not great. But admittedly thats what the media is choosing to show right now.

Offline Maverick

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« Reply #28 on: September 02, 2005, 11:25:58 AM »
If you think the media is going to show a fair picture you really need to cut back on the smoking funny cigarettes. The highest ratings go to the "story" with the worst conditions / angle to it.
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Offline Skydancer

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« Reply #29 on: September 02, 2005, 11:28:33 AM »
Haven't smoked those in years. I hear the stuff is stronger these days!

Your right I guess. The media like to present worst case all the time it makes better news.