desesperaly needing help :)

[SFRT - Frenchy]

This is the whole story :   (get a pillow)
 
The timing belt broke while driving 70 MPH on freeway. 8 valves over 16 were bent. The mec changed my whole head. He grabed one from the junk yard, reworked it in the shop and changed the timing belt and water pump. All this for $1200 that I lowered to $900.
 
When I took the car it was runing awfull, like (breut breut breut)   and strange things happened. When i was stopped at a red light, car wanted to stall. When I was putting in some gas, car was back to idle 1000 RPM but gradually increased to 4000 RPM (still stoped at red light). Also when I was driving and changing a gear, RPM was going 4000 RPM as soon as I was pressing the clutch.
 
We check the compression, book says 178, but I had 120, 60, 120, 120 on cylinders 1,2,3,4. ggrrrr. Mec said it was runing bad and I had those RPM problems because the 'automatic chock' who sensed a not even combustion and tries to accelerate to make engine runs more even.
 
For $600 more, the mec said he could change the nb 2 cylinder ring, that would restore my compression and make eng run even. He did that and when I took it for a test drive, i had the feeling of having less power than before, and engine was still not runing right (bleup bleup bleup) and tendancy either to stall or to idle at 2000 RPM.
Compression check gave 100, 100, 100, 100 for cylinders 1,2,3,4.
 
So I argued the guy I would never pay him $600 because obviously what he did wasn't right. I gained only 40 on the nb2, and LOST 20 on 1,3,4 who were already 2/3 optimal compression ratio. but he changed ring only for nb 2. So guy argued it's not is fault blahblahblah maybe it's because of hole in my exaust, maybe my carburator (BTW I have an injection, is there a carburator in those things?), maybe cylinders worn out. But we almost physically fighted because I still don't want to pay because I'm convinced he didn't put back those things back right.
 
What you think? Any mechanics around here who could enlight me?
 
ty big time.

[Mark Luper]

If you have fuel injection you don't have a carburator. Are you sure it's injected? Most newer cars are.

I used to make my living as a mechanic, I never let a car out of the garage that didn't purr if I did that much work on it. I think the guy is taking your money. My opinion. Especially if it was running smoothly before the timing belt broke. If it wasn't running smoothly before the timing belt incident then it will cost you to make it run smooth again. Sorry for your problems. You might want to check around for the best service tech next time and not be as concerened about which may be cheaper.

Most dealerships are good sources of good repairs and some kind of warantee. Make sure you understand what is being done to your vehicle and what you are to expect it to run like. Make them tell you those things and if you have any doubts about  who is doing it, take it somewhere else.

MarkAT

[SFRT - Frenchy]

Mark, thank you very much, very appreciated.

My cars is a 1988 Honda Prelude 2.0 SI (DOHC), manual gear box, fully loaded. Forgot to give those vital informations.

[Staga]

Did the mechanic check timing for that new belt ?
Engine can still run even if the "Nose cam's" (Dunno how you call it...) timing is wrong by one "Teeth".
That could also be a reason for lowered compressions when valves are opening too soon or too late.

Staga

[Azrael]

 

Originally posted by SFRT - Frenchy:
We check the compression, book says 178, but I had 120, 60, 120, 120 on cylinders 1,2,3,4. ggrrrr. Mec said it was runing bad and I had those RPM problems because the 'automatic chock' who sensed a not even combustion and tries to accelerate to make engine runs more even.

Change your Mec.
The only thing that could "sense" uneven combustion would be 'knock' sensors (dunno the exact english terms), and those would only work if you had a electronically adjusted injection system, by reducing the amount of injected fuel or adjusting timing of ignition for a knocking cylinder.
Your engine has a problem with the idle system or somethings affecting it - the timing of the belt could be indeed the culprit (what staga said), but otoh this compression is awful for a worked over cylinder head.

Az

------------------
381st BG (H)
"Triumphant we fly"

[Ghosth]

Dunno guys but sounds to me like either a bad head, or a leaking head gasket.

Only things I can think of that would drop compresion on all 4 cylinders like that.

Don't pay him a dime till it purrs like a kitten.

[SFRT - Frenchy]

head have been entirely reworked. 4 times at 2 different shops. I will visit Honda tomorrow, thx for help.

[hblair]

You've gotten some good advice. It blows me away when a mechanic will do that much work and not even drive the damn thing to be sure all is ok. When he replaced the head he should have gotten the car back like it was or known what the other problems were, so when ya picked it up he would have been able to explain it to ya.

Listen to this little story...

I've got an old '86 Grand Am. Four years ago it had a Main Bearing go out in the engine (2.5 Liter 4 banger).
I had a couple options:

1. Forget about it and sell the thing for $500 or so.

2. Buy a used engine and install it myself. Anywhere from $400 to $700.

3. Buy a GM target motor with a warranty.

I went for #3. We took it to the local GM dealer.

Went to pick it up, nticed a few days later it was blowing coolant out the exhaust. The *reworked* GM motor had a crack in the head.

Went and picked it up again, drove it a few weeks, same thing, this time Mr. Goodwrench had left a head bolt loose, causing blown head gasket.

Picked it up after this screwup, drove it a month or so and the engine seized, took it back, Mr. Goodwrench installed another Target motor.

Needless to say Mr. Goodwrench lost his bellybutton on this one.  

The best way to find a good mechanic is to ask around. You can get screwed by crooks as well as good intentioned guys who are just ignorant asses.

[Skuzzy]

Uhmmm, Frenchy, you may have more damage than you bargained on.

At 70mph, your engine was probably turning between 3000 and 3500 rpm.

If you have bent valves, they got bent when the pistons hit them.

At that RPM, the pistons will most definately have suffered some stress cracks, at the least, especially around the piston pin area.  The connecting rods could have also been bent.

Remember also, the pistons are cast aluminum.  If they have any surface damage from the valves hitting them, then you can throw those pistons away.  Cast pistons only have a surface hardness that is about 5 thousandths deep.  Anything digging in deeper than that will hit the soft aluminum and eventually you will have a hole burned through the piston.

Also, the piston/valve collisions would cause temporary bare metal to metal contact in the rod and main bearings, with the crankshaft journals.  Damage to these bearings could be very high.  The impact alone would be high enough to compress the bearing material a bit, which would knock the bearings out of round.

At the least, the pistons, piston pins, rods and crankshaft need to be magnfluxed and inspected for stress fractures.  The rods, piston pins, and crankshaft need to be inspected for trueness.  The main and rod bearings need to be visually inspected for damage.  Piston rings need to be inspected for stress failure (the impact from the valves can cause piston rings to shatter).

In the last 30 years of building engines, I have never seen and engine go through what yours went through and not have to be completely rebuilt.  Wish I could have better news for ya.  Good luck with it.


------------------
Roy "Skuzzy" Neese
President, AppLink Corp. http://www.applink.net
skuzzy@applink.net


[This message has been edited by Skuzzy (edited 07-07-2000).]