Author Topic: Bush is now President - what about the Former Yugoslavia? (Read 2332 times)

Dowding · « **on:** December 14, 2000, 07:37:00 AM »

I think we all know Bush's feelings regarding overseas deployment of the US armed forces.

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Condoleezza Rice, chief foreign policy adviser [for the Bush campaign] said, under a Bush administration, the United States would tell its Nato allies that it would not perform a peacekeeping role in the Balkans any more.

Let us now look at a subject that might come back to the fore. The National Missile Defence (NMD) and Theatre Missile Defence (TMD) systems are aimed at defending the US against in-coming missiles. This involves using radar stations in Greenland and Europe (as well as satellites) as an Early Warning system linked to missile batteries in the US.

Clinton's postponement of the development of NMD for a year was criticised by Bush, who wants an expansion of the system.

Which is all fine and dandy except for a few details:

It is a far from proven technology, and has failed several test launches.
It would raise tensions between the West and China and Russia
Perhaps the most important from my point of view: two US military installations in Yorkshire in the northern part of England; Fylingdales and Menwith Hill could be critical to the missile defence systems's success.

This system will in no way protect Britain (and indeed make it a target for pre-emptive strikes to disable NMD). So what do we get out of the deal?

Very little it seems. It is entirely possible that Bush will pull out US forces in the Balkans, and that the NMD program goes ahead with British governmental approval (not wanting to rock the 'special' relationship, which is special because only one side values it). I'm guessing that any formal approval of the system will come after the General Election next May, when the Labour government is safely installed for another parliament. This issue could really rock the boat over here, if Bush pushes the program forward (and thus goes against Clinton's postponement), before the General Election.

Would this be a case of Bush (and the American people) having their cake and eating it?

[This message has been edited by Dowding (edited 12-14-2000).]

Dowding · « **Reply #1 on:** December 14, 2000, 10:58:00 AM »

Does anyone have an opinion on NMD?

straffo · « **Reply #2 on:** December 14, 2000, 11:10:00 AM »

Frankly ?... NO

Staga · « **Reply #3 on:** December 14, 2000, 11:24:00 AM »

Maybe Bush will pull all forces back to States.
No more stupid Yanks in Germany or Italy. Maybe they even stop occupier Britannia.

Kieren · « **Reply #4 on:** December 14, 2000, 11:41:00 AM »

Staga-

Why do you hang out with us stupid people then?

LLv34_Snefens · « **Reply #5 on:** December 14, 2000, 11:44:00 AM »

When it was stated that Greenland also was likely to be housing radar stations there was quite a reaction in both the public and parlament here in Denmark, demanding to inform the US that it would NOT be allowed.
But since the US officially didn't ask (yet) for permission to place the radars at Thule no descision was made.
I got the feeling that they would have troubles getting it once they asked tho.

Staga · « **Reply #6 on:** December 14, 2000, 12:11:00 PM »

Got a big one this time; Bring me a bigger pan!

blur · « **Reply #7 on:** December 14, 2000, 01:16:00 PM »

This Star Wars Missile Defense System or whatever it's called is the most stupid idea I've ever heard of.

First off it's going to piss off Russia, China and many other countries and could result in a re-escalation of the cold war.

At a time when national, economic and informational barriers are being dissolved this project goes against the grain by putting up a new barrier!

It's extremely expensive, so as a U.S. taxpayer I get to watch my hard-earned money get pissed away on this hare-brained nonsense.

The only people who'll benefit from this project are the research scientists who are sucking up all those big grants.

The U.S., having this missile defense system, is analogous to the citizen who feels he must have a gun to protect himself from imagined threats. It's dysfunctional!

Live by the missile.
Die by the missile.

LJK Raubvogel · « **Reply #8 on:** December 14, 2000, 01:41:00 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Dowding:

So what do we get out of the deal?

Very little it seems. It is entirely possible that Bush will pull out US forces in the Balkans, and that the NMD program goes ahead with British governmental approval (not wanting to rock the 'special' relationship, which is special because only one side values it).

Are you serious? Do we really need to get into the benefits from a good UK/US relation? I'm just wondering why you think we should continue to be involved in the Balkans? If the same situation was taking place in Central America, do you think the UK would have an obligation to send troops? The treaties of NATO were for mutual defense, not for peacekeeping. The situation in the Balkans is no longer a threat to any NATO member, so what obligation do we have to be there?

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LJK_Raubvogel
LuftJägerKorps

[This message has been edited by LJK Raubvogel (edited 12-14-2000).]

Dowding · « **Reply #9 on:** December 14, 2000, 03:42:00 PM »

In case you didn't realise, I was pointing out the potenial hypocisy of pulling out of Europe ('because it's not our fight'), yet asking Britain to put its arse on the line for the sake US defence. With no obvious benefit to the UK.

There's only one side that believes the 'special' relationship is significant; and it isn't America.

Snefens - if you are a little unsettled by the prospect of a radar station being used for NMD on an island a few hundred miles away, imagine how I feel about a radar station 60 miles from my house.

[This message has been edited by Dowding (edited 12-14-2000).]

qts · « **Reply #10 on:** December 14, 2000, 03:46:00 PM »

Well, if the rest of Europe weren't so stupidly anti-American and anti-British, then the bases might be placed further east.

We can only hope that Mr Vague somehow pulls a rabbit out of the hat and defeats The roadkillter. Given the apparent fawning attitude of the Blair roadkill Corps, this is going to be difficult.

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qts

Dowding · « **Reply #11 on:** December 14, 2000, 04:00:00 PM »

I'm not a great fan of Blair (in many ways).

But I'd rather see his government in power, than Hague's all-singing freak show (kindly sponsored by the Daily Mail).

"Now performing off the back of a Band-wagon near you!"

LJK Raubvogel · « **Reply #12 on:** December 14, 2000, 04:22:00 PM »

Maybe I'm missing something here Dowding, but how are radar stations any different than the air bases we have had in the UK for years? And you know damn well that if the UK were threatened, the US would be the first country to come to its aid. You act as if the UK gets no benefit from a relationship with the US. We both know that is false, don't we?

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LJK_Raubvogel
LuftJägerKorps

[This message has been edited by LJK Raubvogel (edited 12-14-2000).]

Dowding · « **Reply #13 on:** December 14, 2000, 04:47:00 PM »

Perhaps you haven't looked into the NMD system enough. It is a system to defend America (and America only) from ICBM attack. Here's a sequence of events for you:

1) County X decides to launch a missile attack on the States, for whatever reason.

2)Only problem is the NMD system, the eyes of which are the radar stations in Britain.

3) Country X uses a few warheads on the radar stations in Britain, to render NMD blind and pave the way for a large scale attack on the States.

4) The UK is hit by nuclear weapons, for the simple reason that we had radar stations used for a defence system that doesn't even protect us.

Also - as I have said twice now (

)- only Britain values the 'special' relationship - America really couldn't care less.

LJK Raubvogel · « **Reply #14 on:** December 14, 2000, 05:02:00 PM »

Which brings me back to my first point in my last post. How is that different than having our airbases in the UK during the entire Cold War? Also, you keep saying that you don't benefit from it? I'm pretty sure that it is in the UK's best interest for the US to not get nuked

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LJK_Raubvogel
LuftJägerKorps

[This message has been edited by LJK Raubvogel (edited 12-14-2000).]