Author Topic: Gas tax by state  (Read 1292 times)

Offline Delirium

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Gas tax by state
« Reply #30 on: September 08, 2005, 07:11:56 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by LePaul
Umm, not everyone can afford to buy a new hybrid vehicle,  Delirium.


Exactly... if they had realized the problem and worked to resolve it 30+ years ago, we wouldn't have to pay big bucks for a hybrid car that still has problems.

Everyone knew this problem was coming, and nothing was done.

Oh, and Silat, forget Carter... he was a trusting fool that lacked wisdom (but not intelligence) for the CIC position.
Delirium
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Offline ROC

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Gas tax by state
« Reply #31 on: September 08, 2005, 10:20:36 PM »
Oh Lew lol  you know I luv's ya bro, but really, how about we make the same 16k per year as kuwait's average income.

Quote
Or better yet how about we pay the same price Kuwait pays pre gallon.


You know better than this, don't pull the soundbites out for these guys.

Man, Albania had a $1,400.00 Annual Income, as an example, in 2000, but paid .90 cents a gallon as early as 2002.  Weren't we up about $2.50 around then?  I think as a nation, even the poorest in NO made a tad more than $1,400.00 per year.  As a percentage of the average income, even the poorest of incomes, our buying power is Incredible.

Someone on the TV squaking about not having enough gas to evac, with diamond stud lip earrings, tatoos and expensive tennis shoes has a problem with fiscal management, that's not My problem.

Everyone is up in arms over the price of gasoline, but frankly, I just got back from a trip to Salt Lake from Sacramento this weekend.  I paid Exactly $16.00 more in fuel than I did for the same trip last year.

Whoopy, I won $140.00 at Winnemucca and I'm up 12k in income from last year. 16 bucks?  Who the flip cares, that's squat.

So the big evil oil companies are making a profit.  They had the resources to get the refineries off the Gulf back up Far Faster than anyone expected.  Admit it, everyone is stunned at the rapid rebuild. You can't do that on a welfare check, you need Cash, that comes from Profit, Profit is fuel and fuel drives an industrial machine.  Starve it because it's "not fair" and you restrict the industrial engine and Nothing Moves.

Small flaw in the utopia of everyone should have everything they need for free.  No one is going to work an oil field for "social gain" in a utopian world.  They will all want to be artists, poets and singers.  It takes Money to attract them to work in the fields, and profits to attract investment to Build the fields.  

Jealousy over someone else making profit's is just wrong.  Oil is not a necessity for existance, it's a comfort, a luxury.  You can have housing with minimal power, burn candles and wood in your fireplace, barbque outside.  You can get to work on Busses or a $25.00 Bike from Goodwill.   China does it, their wonderful Socialist Society has proven that all will eat and work.  

Sometimes I think people take luxury as a right, it's not, it's expensive.  Buy into it if you want it.  

You know what is stopping the hybrid cars and fuel cell technology?  No Profit!  They are still trying to find a way to make a Dime of the thing.  The investment is Far too Huge to offset the cars.  It's close, but the cost of fuel isn't the answer.  That brings a huge amount of additional problems.  Fuel sales will plummet, and with it, the cost to build the roads for all those nifty non pulluting vehicles.  

Sound bites get alot of attention, and stir up the short sighted, but there is usually far more going on than most people have a clue about.

Oh, and if you want to talk hybrids and fuel cells, I'd love to.  We have a new fuel cell partnership a mile from my house that is a fantastic facility.  All the major auto manufacturers are in the lab making batteries that run off Water.  The technology is absolutely Stunning, and...20 years away.  But, it works.  

Now, 20 years of research costing billions in investments.  A battery with $20.00 bucks worth of actual material is going to be expensive.  It's going to be a funny discussion when they talk about the obscene profits they are making selling that stupid battery for $15,960.00 , but someone is going to want their investment Back.
ROC
Nothing clever here.  Please, move along.

Offline nirvana

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Gas tax by state
« Reply #32 on: September 09, 2005, 12:04:12 AM »
Well shoot they are thinking about releasing them altogether here in Colorado and taxes are "only" 22 cents.  The news reported Gov. Owens said the state makes approximately 22 billion or year or something off of gas taxes.  Take it with a grain of salt and move on.
Who are you to wave your finger?

Offline lazs2

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« Reply #33 on: September 09, 2005, 08:25:15 AM »
delierium... are you saying that we could have had these hybrid cars 30 years ago?    Wow... the euros have really been getting screwed then... they pay twice what we pay and allways have... they sure coulda used those hybrids back then...

30 years ago you couldn't even depend on a battery to turn over your big block when it got warmed up on a hot day.

As for the gas taxes... since none, or allmost none of it, goes to fixing the roads that we drive on.... you could cut the tax in half and the roads would not get any different care than they get right now.

lazs

Offline Delirium

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« Reply #34 on: September 09, 2005, 03:11:47 PM »
No, I'm not saying we would of had Hybrid cars but we could of had alot better hybrid cars  we have now or some better alternative.

Instead, we waited... throwing more money at the Middle East while becoming slaves to OPEC, while making it worse driving not the huge V8s of the 70s but SUVs instead.

edit: The issue can be compared to a 300lb bride that decides to lose weight for the wedding the night before the wedding instead of 10 months earlier.
« Last Edit: September 09, 2005, 03:23:15 PM by Delirium »
Delirium
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Offline Nashwan

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« Reply #35 on: September 09, 2005, 04:05:09 PM »
Quote

As for the gas taxes... since none, or allmost none of it, goes to fixing the roads that we drive on.... you could cut the tax in half and the roads would not get any different care than they get right now.


I don't think that's true.

As of 2001, state federal and local gasoline taxes raised $46 billion, which is a small proportion of the overall roads budget.

In California, 47% of money raised by gasoline taxes went on state administered roads, 44.4% on local roads, 6.8% on mass transit and 1.8% on other things.

Source: http://www.brookings.edu/es/urban/publications/gastax.pdf

The figures for the amount raised sound about right, looking at the gasoline consumption figures for the US.

Offline Aubrey

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« Reply #36 on: September 09, 2005, 04:46:11 PM »
I think the root problem is dependance on a foreign source for a vital resource. Sure it is cheap and why not use thiers up and not ours but......

As a national security policy it sucks.

Think about it if we did not depend on foriegn oil...how much wieght would the middle east pull in international affairs...I am not saying weather that would be right or wrong just amking an observation.

We should be pouring money into alternative fuels, not for enviormental reasons or any of the other stuff..but for 1 overriding reason..our nationa and way of life will be much safer when the fuel of our economy is not dependant on other countries.

Offline lazs2

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« Reply #37 on: September 09, 2005, 06:52:53 PM »
sorry nashwan... the state tax we pay is a not even half of the total.... the administration of the money is more than the actual repair in Kalifornia also... and.... why would any money go to public transportation?    Overall.... a very small portion of the money is being spent on actually repairing, building and maintaining roads.

Also... Cal trans is one of the most wasteful agencies in the world.. I do not believe that you could find a contractor that could possibly be worse.    Private contractors constantly cut cal trans costs for doing the same work in half or more..

delerium... I think you are wrong and guilty of wishful thinking... you can't rush the tech...  Not to any great extent anyway... the hybrid cars of today are a compilation of a dozen major breakthroughs that simply did not exist 30 years ago... if they did.... by now you would have home computers that could get you off with a lap dance and 2 oz batteries that would power a million candlepower flashlight for a year on one charge.l

lazs

Offline lazs2

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« Reply #38 on: September 09, 2005, 07:09:52 PM »
Oh... and nashwan... since you like charts and graphs so much (sorry mine isn't from a lefty site)

http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m2893/is_3_20/ai_77608442

This explains the federal tax on gasoline (about 50-70% of the tax we pay)   It is more than half used for things other than roads.  

combined with the more than 10% of state taxes that are used for things other than roads.... you have the vast majority of this tax money (state and federal combined)being used for things other than the roads we drive on..  this doesn't even take into account the inherant wastefulness of government run programs this large.  

The real figure is probly close to 75% waste or monies being misspent for things other than what they are collected for.

lazs

Offline Edbert

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« Reply #39 on: September 09, 2005, 07:53:44 PM »
Even Nashwan's site says that Texas leads the nation by diverting more than 25% of the gas-tax recipts to things other than roads, the highest percentage in the nation according to the document he posted. I'm not whining about that, our republican-lead government (both houses and the governor) has been purchased lock stock and barrel by corporate interests.

Offline lazs2

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« Reply #40 on: September 10, 2005, 09:39:21 AM »
yep and those are for the state portion of the taxes... the federal portion is even worse.   oddly... the states that bring in the least money in taxes (less consumption) seem to spend more of it on their roads..

point is... in any tax based program most of the money will be siphoned off to hide money spent on more government...  They need to because you wouldn't vote for a tax that you knew only a tiny portion of would go to whatever they calimed it went to.

If all taxe monies were locked into enterprise funds or seperate accounts with pubolic accounting then the waste would only be in the burocracy.... still a huge amount but an improvement...

If no new unfunded mandates (programs) could be proprossed it would bring government growth down to a managable level...  

Lots of good sounding and wasteful programs are mandated just to grow government... no funding is available so...... they simply rob some other programs funds and then say that the other program needs more money.

there is no accountability.

lazs

Offline kesolei

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« Reply #41 on: September 10, 2005, 09:51:06 AM »
Has anyone ever noticed that when the price for Crude Oil raises by a  dollar per barrel, our price at the pump raises by $.10-$.15? And then when the price drops by a dollar, the price we pay for gas only drops by $.05?

The media is interesting, because they're reporting on the price of oil futures a lot of the time. Right now, the price per barrel is close to being the same as it was before Katrina (i -beleive, i should go check but I haven't got the time right now. If I'm wrong on that someone tell me!). And yet, we're paying amazing prices for gas. Because the -futures- for crude oil went up.

It makes sense, and it doesn't make sense all at the same time.

Offline MiloMorai

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« Reply #42 on: September 10, 2005, 09:58:16 AM »
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Originally posted by kesolei
Has anyone ever noticed that when the price for Crude Oil raises by a  dollar per barrel, our price at the pump raises by $.10-$.15? And then when the price drops by a dollar, the price we pay for gas only drops by $.05?


Have you noticed that when the barrel price goes up, that the price at the pumps goes up even though the gas in the station's storage tanks was bought at the lower barrel price? :eek:

Offline kesolei

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« Reply #43 on: September 10, 2005, 10:00:07 AM »
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Originally posted by MiloMorai
Have you noticed that when the barrel price goes up, that the price at the pumps goes up even though the gas in the station's storage tanks was bought at the lower barrel price? :eek:


Yea, I have. I can almost understand that though, because they're going to have to buy the gas at the higher price later... But....  They still shouldn't be raising the price on stuff already in their tanks.

Offline Edbert

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« Reply #44 on: September 10, 2005, 10:17:56 AM »
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Originally posted by kesolei
They still shouldn't be raising the price on stuff already in their tanks.

In a capitalist system not only "should" they not, but doing so could put their profits in jeapordy. But as I said earlier in this thread...the pump-gas situation in no way exhibits the effects of market forces.

Our elected officials (both sides of the aisle, don't kid yourself) have rigged the system through regulations to allow the existing oil companies to charge whatever price they like and the consumer's only choice is to stop using gas altogether. Those consumers who don't like unemployment, or don't want to freeze to death decide to keep buying it.