I like 45 ACP!

[Maverick]

The .45 in a pistol tends to be less harsh in recoil than a .40 to me. More of a push than a hard rap to the hand.

The tommy gun was nice but I prefer the old M3 or M3A1 "grease" gun as it fires the same round and is MUCH easier to care for not to mention quite a bit lighter.

[Yeager]

I prefer the 9mm over the 45 APC for several reasons.....

1) Because the recoil is much more managable, I can acheive far better speed with accuracy, especially on double taps, with the 9mm as opposed to the 45.

2) I can hoist around a max total of 20 rounds in my Glock 19 versus 8 rounds max in the standard Colt without reloading.  ( I use Glock 17 Clips with my Glock19 with a spacer allowing for two more rounds plus one in the barrel when I am so inclined).  This simply Means I can bring down a medium sized crowd of evil doers and be alive to reload if I have to.

3) the percentage of one shot stops is 87% for the 9mm vrs 89% for the 45 (see link).  A difference of 2% is a percent I will trade for nearly tripple the amount of ammo instantly available to the finger.

http://www.sdmahaney.org/ccw-model/html/one-shot.htm

[Terror]

SIGs are non-ergonomic, hard to manage, pieces of poo.  Their design automatically makes it difficult to get your grip high enough on the weapon to properly manage recoil.  Shooting is hard enough, why handicap yourself from the start by shooting one of these poorly designed firearms?

Terror

[Terror]

Originally posted by Terror
SIGs are non-ergonomic, hard to manage, pieces of poo.  Their design automatically makes it difficult to get your grip high enough on the weapon to properly manage recoil.  Shooting is hard enough, why handicap yourself from the start by shooting one of these poorly designed firearms?

Terror

PS.  If you want an extremely reliable firearm in .45ACP go GLOCK21, if you want a pretty, but less reliable, .45ACP, go 1911.

[lazs2]

the best round for handguns is the 44 mag...  it is the best balance of power and weight and recoil every made...  It is not for everyone tho...  It is easy to reload for and can be loaded for anythiog from plastic bullets using only primers for power to loads with well over a half a ton of energy and everything in between..


but.... I like the weak little .45 even tho it only works in a very narrow power band (except in my 45 acp revolvers) and throws away it's brass and can be really inaccurate in most guns and has a short usable range...  

It is fun to shoot and I have about 20,000 empty cases so I don't care about the brass much...

I agree that I just seem to shoot the 1911 style better... I am VERY fond of Kimbers..  if I needed to carry tho I might give the nod to the HK.

I don't really care how many rounds a handgun holds...5 is plenty.. if I need more... I am probly screwed anyway.

lazs

[StarOfAfrica2]

Terror, I think by now everyone is well aware of your obsession with Glocks and your dislike of SIGs.  By the same token, everyone is just as aware you are the only one who has this mental disease.  I dont blame you, its probably the well water in New Melle.  Try filtering.

An endorsement is fine, but I dont think we need your constant bashing of SIG every time a thread comes up that includes one.

[lasersailor184]

PS. If you want an extremely reliable firearm in .45ACP go GLOCK21, if you want a pretty, but less reliable, .45ACP, go 1911.

Bull**** dude.  The only problems I've ever had were with glocks.

[StarOfAfrica2]

One more you ought to consider, is the .38 Super.  I thought it had died off but apparently people are still shooting it and its getting popular again.  Last month's GUNS magazine had an article on a Les Baer .38 Super Chief Commanche.  It's a commander sized 1911 shooting .38 Supers.  

Lighter than a .45, more rounds, has a punch similar to a .357 Magnum.

[Terror]

Originally posted by lasersailor184
Bull**** dude.  The only problems I've ever had were with glocks.

They only problems that I have ever seen a Glock have are either from using home reloaded ammo or a "tuned" Glock (Where a "gunsmith" tried to customize the trigger).  Glock has proven itself all over the globe as top of the line of reliable semi-auto handguns.

Here is a quote from a thread about a 1911 vs Glock 1000rnd competition .  

WELL HERE THEY ARE!!!!!!!

THE FIRST ANNUAL 1911 VS. GLOCK MATCH RESULTS.

18 total shooters

9-Glock
5 Model 17's
1 Model 19
1 Model 34
2 Model 21's

9-1911
1 Springfield 9mm
1 Springfield 45
1 Norinco 45
1 Les Baer 45
1 Colt 38 Super (Tigger)
1 Colt 9mm
1 Colt 45
1 STI 9mm
1 SV 9mm
* Funny it worked that way, we sure did not plan it to have one of everything..

* Each gun shot 1,000 rounds starting at 8:30 am and ending at 5pm.
21 stages plus a empty your ammo box session at the end to finish all the ammo that was left over. A difficult match always has several misses causing everyone to have different amounts of ammo left over. So we had to get in through their guns to meet the 1,000 round requirement.

We had shots ranging from 25 yard freestyle at 12 inch plates to 5 yard shots while laying on your back shooting upside down at steel swingers. And lets not forget the off hand shooting while leaning out so far they really wanted to lay down to keep from falling over..
It was full of fast shooting with some slow long distance stuff. But mostly fast and and furious, just like a gunfight turns out to be. Hence my point I was going far.

And here is a more detailed break down..
I will not post names. But will let everyone that shot tell who they are if they feel the need. Suffice it to say all of the these shooters were VERY well trained and all Believed very much that their gun would make the 1,000 rounds without failing to fire.

___
1st Place - "H.M."  Glock 17  *709.93 sec.*
(Heinie Sights, 3.5# connector w/ new York Spring)
NO MALFUNTIONS


2nd Place - "J.F."  STI 9mm  *731.53 sec.*
(Polymer Widebody, undercut grips, beveled magwell, trigger job, trigger insert, hard chrome, After extractor, lightened and serrated slide, adjustable rear sights, fiber optic front sight, full lenght guide rod)
1 jam (locked back with round still in mag)
*Shooter said the mags are causing it
**This happened another time, but did not count since it was on the last round of a stage.


3rd Place - "G.L." Glock 17  *755.04 sec.*
(Extended mag release)
NO MALFUNCTIONS


4th Place - "R.P."  SV 9mm  *888.60 sec.*
(Stippled undercut grips, beveled magwell, trigger job, lightened slide, bomar sights, fiber optic front sight, full lenght guide rod)
2 jams (failed to feeds)


5th Place - "A.C." Les Baer- Thunder Ranch Special 45cal  *889.44 sec.*
(S&A mag well, replaced grips)
2 jams (failure to feeds)


6th Place - "D.C."  Glock 34  *960.28 sec.*
(Sights, Gip Tape, JP mag well)
NO MALFUNTIONS


7th Place - "R.C."  Springfield 9mm  *996.07 sec.*
(hogue grips)
NO MALFUNCTIONS


8th Place - "P.B." Glock 17  *1001.42 sec.*
(Steel sights, extended slide release)
NO MALFUNCTIONS


9th Place - "T.B." Colt Lwt Comander 38Super  *1028.22 sec.*
(Bomar sights, magwell, checkered front strap, grips, EWG sear and hammer, trigger, coating-TEFCOAT 2, throating and polishing)
1 jam (fail to extract)


10th Place - "J.M."  Glock 21 45cal.  *1039.26 sec.*
(Stainless steel guide rod, extended slike release)
4 jams (all failing to feed first round from mag when dropping the slide with slide release)


11th Place - "A.C."  Glock 21 45cal.  *1043.63 sec.*
(Titanium guide rod, aluminium seattle slug, heinie sights, extended slide release, precision locking block)
4 jams (3 failing to feed first round from mag when dropping the slide with slide release, one stove pipe while shooting up side down)


12th Place - "M.A."  Colt 45cal.  *1047.61 sec.*
(Mag well)
2 jams (failure to feeds)


13th Place - "R.S."  Glock 19   *1082.38 sec.*
(Guide rod, mag well, titanium firing pin, plunger, 3.5# connector, trigger job, extended slide release and extended mag release)
NO MALFUNTIONS


14th Place - "J.S."  Glock 17   *1092.93 sec.*
(3.5# connector, stainless steel guide rod)
NO MALFUNTIONS


15th  Place - "D.G."  Springfield Armory   *1172.38 sec.*
(S&A magwell, Kart barrel, checkered front strap, customized by Alan Tillman @ A.R.T. Enterprizes)
5 jams (failure to feeds)
*** Staff stopped counting at 5 jams


16th Place - "S.M."   Norinco 45cal.   *NO SCORE* Late arrival
(No comments on modifications, Not stock though)
3 jams (2 Failure to feeds, 1 failure to extract - it needed pliers to extract the empty case)


17th Place - "T.B."   Les Baer 45cal.   *1389.36 sec.*
(Les Baer Priemer II, magwell, arched mainspring)
4 jams (failure to feeds, shooter used table to help force gun free from being locked closed)


18th Place -  "G.W."  Glock 17   *1544.81 sec.*
(Heine Straight 8 night sights, 1/2 trigger job, grip tape)
NO  MALFUNTIONS

1911 Jams - 21
Glock Jams - 8

2 Glocks failed (both Model 21's 45cal)
8 1911's failed (varied)

Oh, just in case anyone missed it, a Glock won the match.
So much for a 1911 being SO much better than a glock for competition shooting.


Guys, That is IT !!!!!!


I think the team shooters will all tell you that we were more than fair with logging the malfunctions. If the shooter caused the problem and we could tell then the jams did not count. Two 1911's had failures on the last round and we did not count them since the stage was over. (lucky)
One Glock shooter let his slide hit a barricade so that did not count either. (dummy, how knew better)


Great job to the shooters for making it though a 1,000 round match.
Even more congrates to the workers that put on the 1,000 round match, Leonard Head, Dan Mancini and Keith Hinton (the hardest working guy out there)

Well the match pictures will be out soon. We will be contacting Glock and any other manufactures that want this info.

All the team shooters will have the first opportunity to come back next year to redeem themselves.

We have already had one Glock Team shooter volunteer to put his gun the safe and not clean it for the next year and come back to shoot the next Glock vs 1911 match. And he said, "We got to give the 1911's a chance, I figure it would only be fair!"

So if anyone has any questions please ask away, I will do my best to answer them...


Oh and as for me? What do I think about what I set up and ran this past weekend?

I have said for many years what I feel, if you know me then you know that. 1911's are like race cars, they do great in a race until they break down. And if you are in a race for fun then that is ok, but if you are in a race for your life, you can't afford to break down...
And now imagine that their is another option. That option is almost as good as that "race" car, but with almost NONE of it's problems... WOW, seems like a good, no a GREAT!!! compromise huh?

Well you have just figured out why a Glock is the best gun on the market for almost eveyone out there...
Easy to use
Very low malfuntion rate
Pretty accurate
And does not cost a arm and a leg....

And best of all, It keeps on shooting.. I had rather shoot one then clean it, or worry when I will need to clean it...
Both 1911 and Glock shooters carry big boxes. The only difference is the 1911 shooter's box is almost full of cleaning supplies and extra parts, the Glock shooter's box just has AMMO in it.
I hope I made my opinion clear...

--------------
Len Baxley
Founder TDSA

I don't hate SIG, some great law enforcement officers are forced to use them.  They are adequate.  They just make an already difficult task, more difficult.

Terror

[Terror]

Originally posted by StarOfAfrica2
Terror, I think by now everyone is well aware of your obsession with Glocks and your dislike of SIGs.  By the same token, everyone is just as aware you are the only one who has this mental disease.  I dont blame you, its probably the well water in New Melle.  Try filtering.

An endorsement is fine, but I dont think we need your constant bashing of SIG every time a thread comes up that includes one.

Just telling the truth as I have experienced it.  And do you really think calling a SIG a "piece of poo" is bashing?  I thought I was being nice....

Terror

[GtoRA2]

Originally posted by Terror
SIGs are non-ergonomic, hard to manage, pieces of poo.  Their design automatically makes it difficult to get your grip high enough on the weapon to properly manage recoil.  Shooting is hard enough, why handicap yourself from the start by shooting one of these poorly designed firearms?

Terror

Oh BS, the barrel line is not that much higher then a 1911, and I do not notice much more then on a 1911 recoil wise.

Glocks feel like cheap plastic crap and have a ****ty trigger.

But if you like them thats fine.

[Maverick]

Handguns are an individual choice kind of thing. In my old department you had a choioce of 3 semi auto's if you were to use your own. A glock a S&W and a HK. Most of the folks chose the Glock due to price, mag cap and the fact that the armorers said they had fewer problems with the Glocks than the other 2 choices. Later on the department got a supply contract and started issueing HK USP's if you wanted an issue weapon. Quite a few who had the Glocks kept them, me included as I was already very used to the weapon and it did well for me on and off duty.

I used my duty rig and weapon for competition and didn't have any problems in doing so. I also used my own reloads for competition. I kept the 19 for both on and off duty use and never felt I was at a loss for doing so. I have 4 glocks now including my wifes little 26 and I have a 27 too. AFAIC the 19 was just as easy to conceal as the Colt stainless Officers Model it replaced and was the same size but with more than double the number of rounds in a lighter package.

If you like the gun you have, it serves you well and most improtantly is reliable and accurate for you then it's a good choice for you. It may not be the best choice for everyone. I know Laz likes the .44 mag but for an urban setting where you don't know what's behind the target it has far too much overpenetration for light weight targets like people. JMO based on the experiances I have had and the reading I have done. In bear country it's simply the best option out there for a factory unit with readily available ammo however.

Shoot what ya like and let the other guy (or gal) do the same. That's practicing freedom.

[GtoRA2]

I just got back from Reeds shooting range in mountain view or sunnyvale.

I got to play range master for a bunch of geeks from work who have not shot before or not in years.

We rented:

Glock 17

S&W 7 shot 38 (forgot the number)

BAER 1911 Thunder ranch special.


The glock everyone hated, nasty trigger, didnt point well, felt cheap, didnt feel good in the hand. No one wanted to shoot it.


Everyone liked the Smith, but the double action trigger was pretty bad, but very light if you cocked it.

The Les Baer was fun tell it broke. Yes it broke! The extractor gave out on round 47, I am sure it is a great gun, but the range master said it had 10k plus rounds on it. Still when it worked it was smooth and pretty acurate, I didnt like the grips. The trigger was VERY light with no creep.

They replaced it with a Kimber custom 2 that shot almost as smoothly, had a slightly heavier trigger and rubber grips I liked better.

I shot better over all with the kimber, but I was having issue getting used to the trigger on the baer.


Had a good time, Hopefully the thunder ranch will be working again when Grun and I go again!

[GtoRA2]

Originally posted by Maverick
Handguns are an individual choice kind of thing. In my old department you had a choioce of 3 semi auto's if you were to use your own. A glock a S&W and a HK. Most of the folks chose the Glock due to price, mag cap and the fact that the armorers said they had fewer problems with the Glocks than the other 2 choices. Later on the department got a supply contract and started issueing HK USP's if you wanted an issue weapon. Quite a few who had the Glocks kept them, me included as I was already very used to the weapon and it did well for me on and off duty.

I used my duty rig and weapon for competition and didn't have any problems in doing so. I also used my own reloads for competition. I kept the 19 for both on and off duty use and never felt I was at a loss for doing so. I have 4 glocks now including my wifes little 26 and I have a 27 too. AFAIC the 19 was just as easy to conceal as the Colt stainless Officers Model it replaced and was the same size but with more than double the number of rounds in a lighter package.

If you like the gun you have, it serves you well and most improtantly is reliable and accurate for you then it's a good choice for you. It may not be the best choice for everyone. I know Laz likes the .44 mag but for an urban setting where you don't know what's behind the target it has far too much overpenetration for light weight targets like people. JMO based on the experiances I have had and the reading I have done. In bear country it's simply the best option out there for a factory unit with readily available ammo however.

Shoot what ya like and let the other guy (or gal) do the same. That's practicing freedom.

Now thats a classy way to say you like Glocks!

[GtoRA2]

Laz
 What do you think of Taurus Revolvers?

This one in particular?

MODEL 608 .357 Mag. REVOLVER 608 page