Soviet planes

[Wmaker]

I'd like to see some VVS planes aswell, considering the existing plane set of AH and what would be the most needed planes for events/other historical setups like the CT here's what I'd like to see:

Pe-2
LaGG-3
La-5
La-5F
Earlier Yak-9 with 20mm cannon (pyro talked about Yak-9M)

[Tilt]

Originally posted by Wmaker
Earlier Yak-9 with 20mm cannon (pyro talked about Yak-9M)

Yak 9M was actually finally co incident with the Yak9U...it was a Yak9T type fuselage (cockpit further back) with stronger wings and initially the VK105 engine of the Yak9D/T.  

It's performance was poor (31mph slower than the Yak3 and 10mph slower than the D/T)

It was not until the 2 stage supercharged version of the VK105-2,  that had been previously preserved for the Yak3, became available (October 44) that the Yak 9M showed any performance improvement over the D/T models

It then gave marginally better performance than the Yak9D and Yak9T both of which had used the VK105.

[1K3]

NO to Yak-9M

The 9M doesnt represent the mid war Yaks that served VVS.  The 9D or 9 standard would be better...

[Squire]

My vote would be for a regular Yak-9.

[Kurfürst]

Originally posted by Whisky58

I'd be interested to know what types were included & offered to the Frenchies in the "all available" list.

Any ideas fellas ?

Regards

P-47D-10
Spit VB
Spit IX LF - the VVS received ca 1000 examples of these, however, they did not find it fit for frontline service on the EF, and used them as high altitude interceptors in rear areas, ie. around Moscow from good airstrips.
P-39
P-63

Certainly the Yak3 was at least as good as any of these. It lacked as good high alt performance of the P-47, but otherwise it was good as any of these. Certainly it had the best vision from the cocpit of all WW2 airplanes... very nimble, very high powerload with this light aiframe, 4300 fpm+ climbrate.

The only negatives I can think of is relatively small ammo load (only 120 cannon rounds), but otherwise it was well armed, there were even 2x20mm versions of the plane.

The only weakness that could be exploited is the relatively low speed (400mph) and poorer altitude performance vs. the latest western aircraft, but it`s every bit of an equal of the 109G-14 or the +25lbs SpitIX in speed at any altitude.

[Squire]

Yak-3 is my favorite VVS "domestic built" fighter, but AH already has a Yak-9U, so there is some question of overlap. If AH didnt have the Yak-9U I would vote for Yak-3.

P-63, few if any served in the ETO. Nice a/c though.

P-39, well, pretty much the "T-34" of the VVS, used in huge #s.

[straffo]

Originally posted by Kurfürst
P-47D-10
Spit VB
Spit IX LF - the VVS received ca 1000 examples of these, however, they did not find it fit for frontline service on the EF, and used them as high altitude interceptors in rear areas, ie. around Moscow from good airstrips.
P-39
P-63

I wonder why I post ...
The NN made their choice in winter 1942.

[Tilt]

Originally posted by Kurfürst
P-47D-10
Spit VB
Spit IX LF - the VVS received ca 1000 examples of these, however, they did not find it fit for frontline service on the EF, and used them as high altitude interceptors in rear areas, ie. around Moscow from good airstrips.
P-39
P-63

from my notes.......

2 VVS regiments were equiped with Mk V's for a period in 43

26 IAP-PVO in the Leningrad area.

36 IAP in the Kuban/Black Sea area.

102GIAP (formerly 124 IAP) was  equipped with MkIX's from 44 to  the wars end where they were based at Vyborg after leaving the Leningrad area.

Approx 140 Spit MkVb's were put into combat use over 1000 SpitIX's seem to have been "sent" but were not "accepted" I dont know what the difference is.

VVS considered the Spit ideal for PR but too delicate for the rigours of the EF

A couple of hundred P47's like wise.

3000 + A20's, Bostons, Havocs  were the Red navy's only heavy torpedo bomber!!!!......they carried torpedoes?

P63 was not available in early 44

[Tilt]

Originally posted by straffo
I wonder why I post ...
The NN made their choice in winter 1942.

Yes November 42 they chose the Yak 1..........

became oprational in March 43

.......and infact they did not get Yak3's until August 44.

They earned the post fix Niemen in July 44 flying Yak9D/T's duruing Bagration and were allowed to put the tricolor on their spinners in August. (not before as alot of art work erroniously shows)

[Knegel]

Hi,

i would like to see the B239, Fiat G50bis, Lagg3, Yak1+1B, Mig3, I-16 and I-153, Ki43, Ki44, Bf109E7 and Pe-2.

Regarding the Yak3 i think it was a good plane but not as super as many may think. Most pages quote the Yak3 prototype performrnce, with VK-107 and VK108 engine, both dont saw service.

The Yak-3 with VK105-PF2 was a real low level fighter, above 2300m altitude the enginepower did decrease rapidly and the low aspectratio wasnt a help in high alt. Vmax with this engine was at around 4000m alt. The powerload of the La7, 109G10, Spit14, Yak9U and Ki44 was better.

I think, if people talk about nimble or manouverable they talk about a good rollratio mainly(similar to the FW190).  The VK105-PF2 gave around 1250HP up to 2300m altitude,  take off/ WEP was 1300hp close to the ground. Even if we consider the smal and light airframe this power is rather poor for a late war plane.

Even the DB601E with combatpower had same power at 1500-2300m alt, above this the DB601E got a big advantage.
The DB6051A with combatpower was much stronger all over.
The wingload of the Yak3 was rather high, the aspectratio very low, so i guess the liftload was rather high.  For sure the 1944 109G6´s and FW190A´s had to avoid a close combat with the Yak3, but the same we can suggest vs a 109F4, A6M5, SpitV, HurriII etc(actually closecombats in 1944, with possibliy 5-7 times more enemys than friends in the air, was bad at all for a german pilot).

Iam pretty sure, right modeled the Yak3, same like the Yak1 will be a interesting plane in AH.

Apropro right modeled, the FM makers should start to get the induced drag calculation right.  It still looks to me that they forget that light wingloaded planes have a big max induced drag and therfor big max E-bleed, if they turn tight. Planes like the Ki84, A6m5, SpitV, F4F, Hurri and lighter wingloaded planes in general dont seems to bleed energy while tight turns as they should. As result the 109F keep more energy while a highspeedturn than a 109G6, same like the SpitV keep more energy than the SpitIXc etc (its best to compare same airframes to show the mistake, otherwise some people will start to fight for 'their' plane/nation). But this is a bad mistake!! Althought the SpitV should be able to turn more tight (slower stallspeed, due to better liftload), it should bleed much more energy while turning that tight and at speeds above sustained turnspeed (around 175mph), cause much less inertia and power(same count for the 109F vs 109G). But in AH we have all in oposide direction. The SpitIXc and 109G6 only can run to survive vs their predecessors, if the climbratio is better, they can outclimb them, but after one turn they lost their advantage, even the G10 have problems vs the F4 or G2, althought much more power and inertia(btw, with combatpower the 109G10 should be the most bad 109G in game).
Its important to know that light wingloaded planes turn more tight, but at same time they bleed much more energy. If the SpitV and SpitIX turn with the most tight SpitIX-radius, the SpitV should lose much more speed, cause missing power, although the SpitV should be able to turn more tight with this smaler speed.
While constant smooth highspeed turns this different should be even bigger, cause here the inertia(around 400kg more weight) into flightdirection is a important aspect, next to the greater power. If the relation between SpitVb/SpitIX and 109G/109F would have been like it is in AH, noone would have used the newer models.

Credible performcerelations we almost only see if similar wingloaded planes fight each other. Like 109G2 vs La7, SpitV vs A6M5,  109G6 vs P51 etc. Most strange it get if planes like the P51D, F4U and P38 use their flaps, they get a incredible liftenhancement, almost without drag penalty, therfor this planes get to be the best stallfighters while using flaps(the fowlerflaps of the P38 realy had a good lift/drag relation, but this most heavy wingloaded plane realy did need it!).

Greetings, Knegel

[Wmaker]

Originally posted by Tilt
Yak 9M was actually finally co incident with the Yak9U...it was a Yak9T type fuselage (cockpit further back) with stronger wings and initially the VK105 engine of the Yak9D/T.  

It's performance was poor (31mph slower than the Yak3 and 10mph slower than the D/T)

It was not until the 2 stage supercharged version of the VK105-2,  that had been previously preserved for the Yak3, became available (October 44) that the Yak 9M showed any performance improvement over the D/T models

It then gave marginally better performance than the Yak9D and Yak9T both of which had used the VK105.

Yes I know...I was merely saying that we need an earlier Yak-9 with a 20mm cannon. Pyro said that M would be easier to make as it has similar fuselage layout as the T. And could be subbing Yak-9/9D in events.

Personally I don't quite understand this as I suspect that there isn't much that can be carried over from the early AH1 models into planes remodelled to AHII standard...but I'm might be wrong considering what pyro said.

I'd like to see a regular Yak-9 myself.

[Whisky58]

Originally posted by Tilt


The choice at that time was a no brainer

Thanks Tilt .

I had a feeling the competition wouldn't be cutting edge.

Regards.

[Raptor]

and of course the I-16 for early war.... it would be slaughtered but I'd fly it against the luftwaffe, nothing like having the odds against ya:aok

[Squire]

Anybody have any real info on the P-63?

I cant find any source that puts into combat with the VVS save vs the Japanese in summer 1945.