Author Topic: KV1 vs Panther G (Read 2262 times)

MANDO · « **on:** October 04, 2005, 01:09:45 PM »

one in front of the other, 700 yards away, each one fires at the same time and hits the other. Which would win the match?

mipoikel · « **Reply #1 on:** October 04, 2005, 01:20:35 PM »

Depends on the quality /place of hit.

propably KV1 wouldnt get that close if terrain is open.

LLv34_Snefens · « **Reply #2 on:** October 04, 2005, 02:17:34 PM »

KV-1 will have a real hard time penetrating the front armor of the Panther. At that range the KV-1 gun's penetrating power is about the thickness of the Panther armor, but then there is also the sloping.

The Panther's 75mm/L70 have a much easier task killing the the KV-1.

LLv34_Snefens · « **Reply #3 on:** October 04, 2005, 02:28:19 PM »

Penetration capabilities of soviet tank guns. Note that a KV-1 at best will field a ZIS-5 gun:

http://www.battlefield.ru/guns/defin_4.html

That table shows 92mm penetration at 500m when striking perpendicular.

The German 75mm/L70 could at 700 yards penetrate more than 160mm armor.

Squire · « **Reply #4 on:** October 04, 2005, 02:57:12 PM »

The KV-1 cannot penetrate a Panthers front armor (hull or turret) at 500 meters. Not with a 76L/41 gun. You would need a side hull or side turret hit, or a rear hit to knock it out. Its "possible" that a round hitting the front of the Panther will "shot trap" off the turret and go through the top hull, that happened, but it would be a lucky hit...

The KV-1 was a shock to the Germans, as was the T-34, in 1941-42, but the Tiger I and Panther were several steps up in class by the time they were deployed in late 1943.

You need a KV-85 or a T-34/85 with an 85mm gun to try and win a fight vs a Panther, and even at that, you would want tungsten shot (APCR).

All that being said the MkIV series was vulnerable to T-34s and KVs, and they made up the majority of the Panzer forces.

To face a KV-1 M1942 in 1942 with a MkIII or a MKIV you were in for a fight if they were a good crew, it was probably the most formidable tank in the word at that time.

Pongo · « **Reply #5 on:** October 04, 2005, 07:50:42 PM »

Panther 19 out of 20 times.

MiloMorai · « **Reply #6 on:** October 04, 2005, 08:41:15 PM »

Why did you pick the KV-1 when the IS-2 would be the Panther's target?

Krusty · « **Reply #7 on:** October 04, 2005, 11:20:55 PM »

Because the Stalin tank had a 2 rounds per minute reload time, and he's thinking of possible future inclusion in AH, that's my guess

Angus · « **Reply #8 on:** October 05, 2005, 10:14:36 AM »

What was the penetrating force of the 76mm Brit gun then? And reload time?

MANDO · « **Reply #9 on:** October 05, 2005, 02:12:08 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by MiloMorai
Why did you pick the KV-1 when the IS-2 would be the Panther's target?

I read the Panther was the direct response to the KV1, not the T34 (1942).

Squire · « **Reply #10 on:** October 05, 2005, 02:55:22 PM »

The Panther was built in response to both the T-34 and other Russian tanks, like the KV series, but the T-34 is what they really had in mind, as they faced many of them in 1941-2.

The Russian response was to build their designs in huge quantity, as well as being formidable, but simpler designs. They were easy to maintain, would run on the crudest fuel, and were reliable in all conditions. Much like their small arms and artillery.

JS-2 was deployed in special Heavy Tank Regiments, and were designed to batter through the heaviest defences, where T-34 series was considered the standard medium tank in Soviet tank units.

Of all the major combatants in WW2 the Russians were probably the best at quickly altering or coming up with new designs, and fielding them in combat in prodigous quantity.

MiloMorai · « **Reply #11 on:** October 05, 2005, 05:19:23 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Krusty
Because the Stalin tank had a 2 rounds per minute reload time, and he's thinking of possible future inclusion in AH, that's my guess

So looking at the KV-1 for game play and not historical.

Good site on Soviet weapons, http://rkkaww2.armchairgeneral.com/index.htm

MANDO · « **Reply #12 on:** October 05, 2005, 06:33:13 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Squire
The Panther was built in response to both the T-34 and other Russian tanks

Well, 1942 T34 were beatable by Pzkw IV, but not KV-1. This is when Panther design started. By 1942 german forces took control over KV-1 and KV-2 factories, but the Panther design was then a reality not only on paper.

Looking for info about late panthers I found several interesting devices like night vision sight systems and IR devices. Some of them were also adapted to tank crew assault weapons like mp 44s.

GRUNHERZ · « **Reply #13 on:** October 05, 2005, 07:25:03 PM »

Panther was in response to T34.

KV were not so big a factor, not as many made nad they were heavy and really quite unrelaible while having only the asme firepower as the T34.

There is no reason to have KV1 in AH, it would be a really slow, heavily armoed tank with the 76mm gun we have in T34 now.

Krusty · « **Reply #14 on:** October 05, 2005, 08:44:23 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Squire
Of all the major combatants in WW2 the Russians were probably the best at quickly altering or coming up with new designs, and fielding them in combat in prodigous quantity.

Yeah... having an entire population of slave laborers does that

(no slight on you, just grounding that comment in some perspective)