Features we NEED to increase immersion...

[Nath-BDP]

1. A major factor in air combat during WW2 was gun barrel overheating and eventual melting of the barrel if the weapon was continually fired for a certain amount of time.

I think that this should be implemented, it was a major factor in WW2 and it would lower the 'spray and pray' tactic. I asked HT once if they were going to add this he said 'no, it wouldn't add much', I disagree.

2. Ejecting brass (shell casings being ejected from weapon)

3. Cloud layer

4. Smoke from firing guns.

5. Updated damage graphics, such as small pieces flying from aircraft that's being shot, similar to what WB has and what is seen in many WW2 gun cam footage.

I think #1 is most important, what do you think?


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Nath_____
9./JG 54 "Grünherz"
   

"It felt as if an angel was pushing..."
-Reponse of Gen. Adolf Galland after flying the fourth prototype Me 262 in May 1943.

[This message has been edited by Nath-BDP (edited 12-14-2000).]

[This message has been edited by Nath-BDP (edited 12-14-2000).]

[Ripsnort]

Frame Rate.  Nuff said.

[Nath-BDP]

How would #1 effect frame rate?

[Ripsnort]

It wouldn't but I think when I asked HT this at the con, he kept changing the subject to game play, that was while we were drinking though...

Hey, ya got me thinking, the Russian terrain that 10bears has out has cloud layers all the way to the deck, I get better FR than in Main, but that's because the terrain is about 1/2 the size of the Main.

[This message has been edited by Ripsnort (edited 12-14-2000).]

[Midnight]

<SALUTE ALL>

Ouch. I hate to say it, but I agree with Nath on these. He is right on most of this stuff.

1. Gun jams / overheat should occur for those who are heavy on the trigger.

2. I don't know what good this would do. I believe for most planes, the ejected brass was never seen by the pilot firing, and at high speed and distance, no one else would either.

3. I love the clouds, but I doubt the majority of computers out there do. big FPS hits on older machines. Wait a while for when the majority has higher power machines.

4. I saw a pilot interview where the pilot said he used his gun smoke to escape from a pair of Fockes. He was being chased and fired at, so he dove and began firing his guns. The Germans must have beleived they got him and turned away to climb back to altitude.

5. This would be nice to see.

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"Wing up, Get kills, Be happy"

Midnight
13th TAS

[Frosty1]

Think of it from a programming issue.

1.) Framerate. Biggest factor here.
2.) Takes time.
3.) I believe randomizing the bullet ballistics would tax the connection more.
 
Nuff said.


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===>Frosty
====>Exposure2k.com
=====>Frosty@exposure2k.com

[Nath-BDP]

So we shouldn't get a feature because it will take a long time? lol, thank god thats not HTC's way or else I wouldn't be paying $30.

[Sunchaser]

Engine overheat and weapons malfunction for continual fire are the 2 most important.

But that would not please the gamers and, as we are often told, it is only a game.

Too bad, I would really like to have a massive MP WWII flightsim to engage in but, given the small number of balls to the wall simmers out there it just is not going to happen.

Can the overheat and weapons melt feature be added but disabled in the main arena?

Clouds = the more the better and gunsmoke would be good.

Casings and plane parts probably not possible due to Framerate issues not a problem, who has time to look for them anyhow, I am usually too busy looking for thr ripcord.

[discod]

1. I think gun overheating was a factor but if guys want to waste all their ammo spraying the skies with bullets I say let em    To program overheating in accurately means that it would also have to consider altitude and air temp, relative humidity, etc.  Seems like a lot of stuff just to stop "spraying".

2. Are you talking about bomber and tank gun positions?  I think the fighters kept the casings in the wings or nose (I'm probably wrong though)

3. Clouds are cool, don't we already have cloud layer?

4. Would be cool looking

[Nath-BDP]

Not just to stop spray and prayers but to add realism, spraying constantly can be a good idea in certain circumstances, there should be realistic penalties for doing this.

Also, adding these affects (including gun jamming, which I forgot to mention), will really make the Hispano 20mm less effective since it was prone to jamming and higher muzzle velocity will make it easier for barrel to melt. These factors were the deciding factors of the success of aircraft weaponry during WWII.

The MG 151/20 is regarded as the best aircraft cannon of World War II, because it jammed less and had a very high ROF, however, reliability doesn't matter with the current system that allows continuos fire without penalties.

[This message has been edited by Nath-BDP (edited 12-14-2000).]

[This message has been edited by Nath-BDP (edited 12-14-2000).]

[Westy]

 lol. There's always an ulterior motive besides adding 'realism'

  -Westy

[Zigrat]

i agree, though i dont think there should be *random* gun jamming, ie no dud rounds: too much frustration

while i want failures in AH, I only want user imposed failures: gun jams from overheating barrels, engine damage from full throttle too long etcera etcera

i think that strikes a good balance between playability and realism IMO

for the cloud layers, they really dont subtract too much fps, even old software accelerated games had cloud layers -- these clouds are best suited to high alt cirrus clouds above 18k or so, the clouds we have now are more cumulous-like and should be down at low altitudes

btw clouds have NO impact on your framerate if you lower res or color depth.. when flying in a cloudy area i simply bump down from 1600 to 1280 and the fps stays above 50

[Nath-BDP]

In most aircraft shell casings were ejected, save for some bombers like the B17 where some of the guns ejected casings into the fuselage.  

[RAM]

Nath, you forgot both an historical and immersive Factor:

6)- Hispanos jam ramdomly as they used to do in WWII.

[flakbait]

My take on it, from a low-end machine.


1) Barrel overheating? Do you have any idea the amount of the whines that would come from this? Humidity isn't modeled right, there's not enough low temp at 25k. Real can of worms there, and as discod said "seems like a lot to stop spraying."

2) Who'd see flying brass? No one unless you were in the TA or offline. Waste of code and time IMHO.

3) Cloud layers? Already possible by modifying a file, and wreaks havoc on my old system. I'm lucky to see 8 FPS around A6 in this BETA map due to the humongoid cloud layer over it.

4) Smoke from the guns. This could cause one MOTHER of a FR hit if done on every plane. When attacking BUFFs I'm lucky to get 12 FPS, you want to drag that down even more? OTOH doing it for cannons [37mm or larger, like WBs] would be fine. Few of those around anyway, so when you spotted a small brown cloud from a B-25H or Ju-87G it would be a treat.

5) Hmmmm..... If the explosions were ever fixed [look cartoonish] I might go for this. Right now I like the standard hit sprite, but agree with others that they could be expanded on. If you get major pieces blown off an AC [wings and such] you see it. Albeit they are a tad SMALL. You would have to make the blown off part 3x normal size just to see it. My FR is better spent in other areas, like trying to figure out if Rip just flipped me the bird or not.

One thing many people here forget when asking for more of this or that is people like me. Stuck on an old rust bucket that'll push my 109 along at 18FPS. If you want more clouds, make it an option. Want thicker smoke for blown-up stuff, make it an option. Smoke still kills my FR [5 if I'm lucky] as do the clouds. All I see the above doing is chewing up my limited resources. Therefore useless to me in a flying sense as it will not add to, but detract from the game.


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Flakbait
Delta 6's Flight School
"For yay did the sky darken, and split open and spew forth fire, and
through the smoke rode the Four Wurgers of the Apocalypse.
And on their canopies was tattooed the number of the Beast, and the
number was 190." Jedi, Verse Five, Capter Two, The Book of Dweeb