Author Topic: Stuka..oh please...  (Read 2720 times)

Offline nirvana

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Stuka..oh please...
« Reply #15 on: October 06, 2005, 06:36:03 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by hubsonfire
gah, I can't do it. This forum should be renamed again, this time to "The same crappy ideas rehashed  over and over until your eyes bleed, with the occasional reasonable suggestion thrown in so you don't just give up and stop reading".


Wrong forum, but all the same.  One of the best kept secrets of the intardnet BBS is the search button.
Who are you to wave your finger?

Offline 1K3

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Stuka..oh please...
« Reply #16 on: October 06, 2005, 06:50:23 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Kweassa
Should be perked.

 Either that, or no perked tanks.
 
 Any fool can take up a Ju87G and go crashing into a nearby tank guns blazing.

 People already do things like clusterbomb the entire vicinity of the tank at 1k alt, with 42,000lbs of ordnance raining down from Lanc formations - just to knock one tank down.

 What'd they do if they were given a much more effective weapon that drills 100mms of tank armour upon impact? Who needs to practice GV strafing in Hurri2Ds or Il2s? Learn to aim vital spots or set up strafing angles and bearings? No need for such things. Up that flying twin-37mm tungsten core shell shooter and hit it anywhere at close distance, and 100mm penetration guaranteed.

 The tanks would be wiped from the face of the MA earth, and once more the GV aspect of the game would go totally stale. Everybody would up Osties exclusively - just like the old days when any strafing gun would disable or kill tanks easily. The end of the whole ground war, armoured assault, tank-blitz part of the game.


YOU IS WRONG

YOU IS PARANOID :noid

:D
« Last Edit: October 06, 2005, 06:52:54 PM by 1K3 »

Offline 1K3

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Re: Stuka..oh please...
« Reply #17 on: October 06, 2005, 06:54:18 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Nosara
Would  it be possible to have this mod for the Stuka. It was the anti tank model that was used to great effect on the Russian front.

Forward guns
ju.87G-1
2×37 mm BK3,7 cannon


Rear guns
2×7.9 mm
Junkers Jumo  1300 hp

"The Stuka's design featured some innovative features, including an automatic pull-up system to ensure that the plane recovered from its attack dive even if the pilot blacked out from the high acceleration, and wind-powered sirens on the wheel covers that wailed during dives to scare its victims."

And please add the wind-powered sirens so that we can let the ground pounders know we are coming...lol



the Ju-87G-1 is cheap

Ju-87G-2 is better, more aammo

Offline frank3

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Re: Re: Stuka..oh please...
« Reply #18 on: October 07, 2005, 12:00:29 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by 1K3
the Ju-87G-1 is cheap

Ju-87G-2 is better, more aammo


What good is more ammo when you're dead ;)

Offline Kweassa

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Stuka..oh please...
« Reply #19 on: October 07, 2005, 09:05:34 PM »
Quote
YOU IS WRONG

YOU IS PARANOID


 That's what they said to people who foresaw Pearl Harbor coming.

 
 I've been here long enough to witness how the ground warfare changed over the years. The ground warfare wasn't tank-oriented like it is now. In the years before, the tanks were totally useless and everybody used Ostards. It was a bland, stale, tasteless heap of sludge.

 It wasn't until the suggestions of some long-time advocates (including myself) were implemented into the game that the ground war shifted to what it should be. Finally the tanks were the main stuff and the AA vehicles became side kicks. Armoured assault became a real option to suppressing enemy territories.

 The suggestions were simple - the tank armour model was fixed. Before that  even Zeros could strafe a Panzer and knock it dead. The current ground warfare was achieved only when the tanks were tough enough to withstand aerial strafing attacks upto certain amount. You can still disable tanks with concentrated 20mm fire nowadays, but compared to what it was before, the tanks are practically immune from aerial strafing unless it is a very dedicated tank buster like a Hurri2D or a IL2. The rise of these battle tanks as an important factor also gave real use to Hurri2Ds and IL2s, which role in the MA as professional tank-busting equipment is pronounced.

 If the Ju87G which totes a 100mm armour penetrating shell comes free of price, I guarantee that the tanks will go extinct once more, and with it, the Hurri2Ds and IL2s.

Offline EagleEyes

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Stuka..oh please...
« Reply #20 on: October 07, 2005, 11:00:41 PM »
i say perk it, that way we have more stuff to spend our TRILLIONS of bomber perks on!!:aok
Joedog31

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Offline 1K3

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Stuka..oh please...
« Reply #21 on: October 07, 2005, 11:42:25 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Kweassa
That's what they said to people who foresaw Pearl Harbor coming.

 
 I've been here long enough to witness how the ground warfare changed over the years. The ground warfare wasn't tank-oriented like it is now. In the years before, the tanks were totally useless and everybody used Ostards. It was a bland, stale, tasteless heap of sludge.

 It wasn't until the suggestions of some long-time advocates (including myself) were implemented into the game that the ground war shifted to what it should be. Finally the tanks were the main stuff and the AA vehicles became side kicks. Armoured assault became a real option to suppressing enemy territories.

 The suggestions were simple - the tank armour model was fixed. Before that  even Zeros could strafe a Panzer and knock it dead. The current ground warfare was achieved only when the tanks were tough enough to withstand aerial strafing attacks upto certain amount. You can still disable tanks with concentrated 20mm fire nowadays, but compared to what it was before, the tanks are practically immune from aerial strafing unless it is a very dedicated tank buster like a Hurri2D or a IL2. The rise of these battle tanks as an important factor also gave real use to Hurri2Ds and IL2s, which role in the MA as professional tank-busting equipment is pronounced.

 If the Ju87G which totes a 100mm armour penetrating shell comes free of price, I guarantee that the tanks will go extinct once more, and with it, the Hurri2Ds and IL2s.



perking Ju-87G-2 is too harsh

why not give it an ENY of 5?

when "ENY limiter" kicks in, the team with most players dont get to use it. The team who are close to the ropes get to use it.

Offline Ack-Ack

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Stuka..oh please...
« Reply #22 on: October 07, 2005, 11:50:30 PM »
I'd rather have the Ju87D-5 with the 7.95mm machine guns on the wings replaced with 20mm cannons on each wing.  Would make furballing so much more enjoyable and I'd actually be able to do some damage other than annoy my target with the constent pinging sound of spit wads hitting his plane.



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Offline Kweassa

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Stuka..oh please...
« Reply #23 on: October 08, 2005, 05:42:25 AM »
Quote
perking Ju-87G-2 is too harsh

why not give it an ENY of 5?



 Because giving it a small ENY doesn't do anything to control its numbers.

 You need to set up a firing angle to kill a Panzer with a Hurri2D or a IL-2. And even then, you need to hit it at certain speeds and angles to achieve penetration. It takes time and practice to kill tanks by strafing. Tigers are mostly immune to strafing from any aircraft in the first place. Also, a low-alt ordnance drop against GVs takes lot of practice to execute perfectly.

 In other words, killing tanks with aircraft isn't easy for most people. Unless there are a number of experienced tank busters operating from a field, currently it is entirely possible to overwhelm aerial defenses and reach the town/field by armoured assault and suppress it.

 This gives people reason to use tanks, because, the survivability of the tanks is balanced with the difficulty of tank busting in the MA. Tanks are dead meat without aerial cover, IF there are people who know how to bust tanks. BUT, it takes a lot of practice to knock out tanks, and the number of people who know how to do it is always few.


 However, that particular Stuka is armed with a gun that penetrates a Tiger hull armour from the front. You don't need to set up angles, or aim for engine compartments or top armour and stuff in that plane. Just approach, aim, and get a round or two on it and the tank will be at least damaged somewhere.

 In other words, the difficulty of tank busting goes waaaaaaaay low if this plane goes free, and that means the end of tank battles in the MA. Unlike in the game, these Stukas operated in limited numbers and according to exact schedule. In the MA we can respawn again and again and again, until one gets that 37mm AP shot into the target tank, which results in a dead tank.
 


 There's nothing harsh about perking the Ju87G-2.

 People should consider it a real risk to use it, and think of operating it only when there are absolutely no enemy threats nearby. Their numbers should ALWAYS remain very few in the MA - about as common as seeing Me262s in the game.

 Personally, I think it should be perked no less than 30 bomber perks.

 The fact that it's slow or vulnerable to AA vehicles or enemy fighters doesn't matter at all. The only thing that matters is how well it does its intended work , and the answer is that it does it SO well, that it endangers the entire ground warfare aspect of the game.


 If the Ju87G goes free, then there should be a mobile 5" gun mounted on M3s as a countermeasure for GVs. That's how much that plane is threatening to tanks.

Offline Captain Virgil Hilts

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Stuka..oh please...
« Reply #24 on: October 08, 2005, 07:16:19 AM »
Geez, talk about an alarmist.

The Hurri and Il2 are both able to offer some real self defense.

Not so for the Stuka. Especially Stukas with big heavy guns and short clips.

And if that were NOT true, no one would launch Il2's in base defense.

I have yet to see anyone launch a swarm of Stuka's to defend a base.

But you see it often with Il2's.

And armor shouldn't be used if you can't offer it at least some air support and cover. Not to mention some anti air armor.
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Offline Ghosth

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Stuka..oh please...
« Reply #25 on: October 08, 2005, 09:32:29 AM »
Kweassa, don't worry about the ju-87 tank killer numbers.

Your talking about a plane that can't outrun a zero or a hurri.

A plane that is realively fragile, easily killed.

Might see a few if your attacking in GV's with no air cover, but thats a no no anyway.

The average pilot is going to get 1 kill with that stuka, then be trying to rtb.
While everything that sees it is going "Free lunch!, Fresh Meat!"

The only way to be sure of course is to test it.
Put it in the lineup and see what happens.

Offline SuperDud

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Stuka..oh please...
« Reply #26 on: October 08, 2005, 10:40:10 AM »
What adv would the 37mm guns of the 87 have over the 40mm of the hurriD?
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Offline Bronk

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Stuka..oh please...
« Reply #27 on: October 08, 2005, 10:41:26 AM »
Kweasa , Then the people doing the ground war should be smart enough to bring the aa with them . Each tank should have its own  osti or m16 for aa. As it stands now all gv's have to do to avoid gunfire is run into the trees anyway. Also most dedicated gvers are smart enough to send in a squady to kill ords, and vh hanger. Once ords and vh are down there is no effective way to kill tigers from the air at said target.
I dont think it will be as easy as you think for the common pilot to kill tanks with twin 37 mm. I't still requires smooth control. I'll use my self as an example. At the begining of the last tour i started upping IL2s anytime i found a base under gv attack. I had never made an effort to get any better killing gv's before from this aircraft. By the end of the tour I could still only get 2-3 kills  a sortie. I think only the dedicated tank busters would still be an effective threat against gvs. Most pilots dont take te time to get good at it.


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Offline 1K3

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Stuka..oh please...
« Reply #28 on: October 08, 2005, 10:44:40 AM »
Well, if Ju-87G-2 enters the AH world... bring in the WHIRBELWIND mobile AAA and give it an ENY of 5 also.

Offline lasersailor184

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Stuka..oh please...
« Reply #29 on: October 08, 2005, 10:51:51 AM »
Quote
immune to strafing from any aircraft in the first place.


The Tigers aren't Immune to my Hurricane Mk IID.




But anyway, the 37mm cannons are the ultimate tank busters.  They have high velocities, good momentum and great armor piercing abilities.



I'd have to agree with Perking the Ju87g.  However, it should not be perked above 20.  It's still a really vulnerable aircraft to ground fire and other aircraft.
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