AI ack

[BluKitty]

Anyone feel that planes diveing to A.I. ack for safety in this event is aginst the spirit of the event?

I do.

Had p40's diveing from 15-20k to the 'safety' of thier ack.   If that is what this is about I doubt I'll play much in the future.

I killed the p40, then tried to straffe ack at the edge of field to avoid getting shot as I flew over.....  Ack seemed harder than MA ... 20mm's didnt' seem to hurt it.  It stared a fire as my zeke flew over, as it wasn't destroyed by 20mm.

I'd request you simply turn off ALL A.I. ack in this event..... I'll take my chances with a squad cap while rearming before attitudes like this.

I find no fun in fighting AI.  I feel haveing ack is completely aginst the spirit of this event.  It's not MA where people are vulching.  The only 'vulching' could be on rearm pads, I'd prefer to trust my rearming fate to a human cap before AI bull.

How about the rest of you?

[Captain Virgil Hilts]

No.

[kevykev56]

FSO is not like the MA. IMHO FSO is the most fun part of AH. The objective how my squad looks at it is in the order as follows:

1 Complete the given mission
2 stay and keep each other alive (including countrymen) squad is priority
3 Land sucessfully following mission
4 Grab extra points for your country
5 Rack up as many kills as possible

When you decided to follow an NME plane into ack you made a very dangerous decision for FSO and what would have been a dangerous decision in real life. Flying into exploding hot metal is not a very smart move if your objective is to live.

Straffing ack in a zeke that is prone to fire would really not be a smart move. I would give it a %40 chance to burst into flames on the first pass if ack is full up at a field.


Stick out the FSO, the thrill of the chase and completing the mission are what make it fun. Its not always about the kills, they are just a bonus.

Anyhow and welcome to the events, may your next one end with many enemy deaths and a safe landing home.

[doobs]

Originally posted by kevykev56
[B
Straffing ack in a zeke that is prone to fire would really not be a smart move. I would give it a %40 chance to burst into flames on the first pass if ack is full up at a field.
 [/B]

Tell me about it, had a squaddie do it last night. won't mention any names uberhun, but it was a fun frame. long flight though hard to keep the guys and myself sober.

[daddog]

Dieing to ack is never any fun in Squad Operations. Doubly so after a long flight without any enemy engagements.

I personally have dove for friendly ack when in trouble. Since this is not the MA and I only have one life to live I will do my best to survive how ever possible.

The ack in Squad Operations is often about 30% to 50% of the lethality you will find in the MA. So consider the ack as being ˝ as dangerous as that in the MA. As for the hardness of the ack that is never adjusted as far as I know. A hit with a 20mm should take it out as will some strikes with the 50 cals. Remember the A6M2 had a very low rate of fire with their 20mm and “I think” a lower muzzle velocity. For me to hit anything with an A6M2 20mm I have to be right on them or I don’t waste my time trying.

Sorry to hear you had a frustrating night BluKitty. I hope future Friday nights will have the opposite effect.

Next time let the P40 run. You just keep a CAP over head and the lower enemy fighters will not be a threat to any bombers you bring in.  An A6M2 in enemy ack is never a good idea in the MA or in Special Events even in 1/2 strength.

[BluKitty]

doubt I'll play agin,

I don't see the point of playing aginst AI after all this orgnization and time.

And I don't see why pilots should be allowed a safety net.

And frustrating isn't the word.... pointless is the word for me.

[daddog]

Sorry to hear that.  At least consider you don't fly A6M2's very often in Squad Operations.  You have to admit they are paper and taking them through ack is not a wise choice even if its leathality is reduced 50%.

One of the problems with removing the AI ack is the setup CM would have to go to each field and destroy all the ack one at a time. Very time consuming and totally unpractical. If they were to enable the players to man the manable ack that would open up the deadly 5” guns on fleets. At that point we would really hear some complaints. 5” guns have been off limits for years in Squad Operations.

[Wind]

Originally posted by BluKitty
Anyone feel that planes diveing to A.I. ack for safety in this event is aginst the spirit of the event?

I do.

 [/b]I don't.  

The idea of Squad Ops is to accomplish misson according to the frame orders.  Every plane in this event has a point value.  Each kill and death is counted (for and against).

You are 100% correct in that this is NOT the MA.  In the FSO, survival saves points for your side.  Every plane counts.   Next time, please don't waste yours.

W~

[Dace]

Originally posted by Wind
Every plane counts.   Next time, please don't waste yours.

W~

Srry guys couldnt help it.

[Captain Virgil Hilts]

Originally posted by BluKitty
doubt I'll play agin,

I don't see the point of playing aginst AI after all this orgnization and time.

And I don't see why pilots should be allowed a safety net.

And frustrating isn't the word.... pointless is the word for me.

You are looking at it from an MA perspective, or maybe a DA perspective. FSO is different. It is a ONE life event, with the majority of the incentive being survival, and realism, not Quake with planes. AAA was a tool used for survival. If you do not wish to fly with survival as your main objective, there is nothing anyone can do to make you happy in FSO.

You have to be into the immersion of the FSO experience. For example, my FSO mission was probably as close to real life as you can get in a game where you don't reallydie. It was a shining example of "hours of incredible tedium and boredom punctuated by moments of sheer terror". I spent the first half of the first hour scouting solo, and the second half fighting for my life and that of my squad (I saved my own sorry carcus, but lost my ENTIRE squad, a dismal failure), then in the second hour I did much the same, but never had a chance to fire my guns. I was bounced twice by superior numbers with altitude and E, and survived once with help, and once without.

It's just a whole different world than the MA, and I doubt you'd have been any less unhappy if it was manned AAA that got you. It appears you are seeking an experience that is contrary to the spirit of FSO and scenarios. You wish to have someone basicly forced to fight you regardless of the circumstances. Doesn't work that way in the FSO.

[BluKitty]

You thump your chest and cry realism?? How many accounts of WWII combat did you hear of a planes diveing 15-20k to the 'safety' of ack?

Well I also remember many more accounts of freindly fire from ack, more than any of planes diveng to the "safety" of ack.  Do we model that realism?  Nervous ack-ack gunners shooting anything that flies?

realism ... ya ok .. your entitled to your opinion.

And some of you talk about waste? ha!
What a nice constructive attitude.
I wonder if you played with a A.I. safety net?  I don't need nor want one, and find it unrealistic.

CM's use the reason "acks would be too hard to destroy 1 by 1" ... you could also set damage to 0% or as close as possible.  Just saying.

Frankly I think the hardness of acks was bug'd....maybe it's a map bug?  Want to see if I can take down an ack in MA with two passes from a zeke?.... it's got 20mm, that makes it sooo easy.
===================================================

Some of you.....Your so-called holier-than-thou attitude isn't exactly constructive to these events.  The CM's can keep an objective P.O.V. ... but that is their job.  If you can't be constructive, please stay out of this thread.

[daddog]

CM's use the reason "acks would be too hard to destroy 1 by 1" ... you could also set damage to 0% or as close as possible. Just saying.

I had thought of that. Ack would just be pretty lights in the sky I guess.

I have read of countless accounts of pilots dreading ground attacks due to the ack that would fly up into their face. Turning down the ack to zero is not a viable option IMHO. Fleets would naked, puffy ack would be of no consequence, and straffing ground targets would become a matter of gunnery only with no thought to enemy ack. To me that would seem unrealistic.

I actually think Squad Ops has hit a nice balance with ack turned down 50 to 70 percent of the MA. It still sucks when an AI ack gets you, but that is FAR from the norm and you still have to worry about the ack as the pilots did in WWII.

[kevykev56]

I will try not to pound my chest while being constructive...here goes.

Bluekitty I will asume you drive a car. If you are moving down the highway at 70mph and a car moves into you lane from the opposite side of traffic...do you:

A. Swerve to miss the car and avoid almost certain death?

B. Say this guy shouldnt be on my side of the road "Ill show him" and stay in the lane and ram him?

My guess would be A just like most people. If your answer is B then there is no need to read further, you will soon be removed from the gene pool.

So assuming your answer was A, then what is different about the scenario you gave.  If a truck is coming your way turn. The ack is the truck, stay alive and fight the guy when he comes out or find another target.

You wanted a fight that the other wasnt willing to give. He may have been bingo ammo or fuel and just wanted to go home. He might have been trying to drag you low and render you usless to your team. Maybe he was just a punk who didnt want to fight. All are possible.


From my limited two years of experience in the event it is a very RARE occurance to have someone run to ack. Most of your fights are very fast and unpredictable. Each side is working together to kill the enemy with twisting turns and zooming attacks. If your SA is low then you will die often in FSO. Keep you head on a swivel and get the mission done.

This is not the place to come for air quake or anything close. You may fly for an hour or more before finding a fight and then have it last 3 minutes and your on your way home. Then you may find yourself in a life or death struggle for over an hour. It just depends on the event and what your squads scheduled duty is.

One thing for certain in FSO, all the problems you have in the MA are alot less problematic here. The main you can find daily people running to ack, HOing, whining...    you know what the rest are. You have all this stuff in FSO also, just MUCH less of it.

Again sorry if your experience was bad, just try and stick it out for a few more. You know you better than anyone here, If FSO is not for you then find something else to amuse you. Im sure its not for everyone, else the entire main would be here.

[BlkKnit]

If a guy in a P40 dives out to avoid a fight with a zeke, well, it really doesn't matter if there is ack below or not......the P40 is gone and there is no fight unless he decides to turn around.

Is it possible that he was just running, and not necessarily to the ack umbrella?  I dont know, you were there and could call it better than I.  Just wondering.

Dont let one frustrating frame cause you to giveup on FSO, and dont take people's replies here as antagonistic.  Most were simply pointing out that the way FSO is set up is how most of us like it.  There has been a lot of trial and error and hard work to get the event to this point, so dont get down on the system,learn to use it to your advantage.