Author Topic: How does an EP-3 ram a fighter? (Read 4580 times)

Toad · « **Reply #30 on:** April 05, 2001, 07:31:00 PM »

Lynx,

Yes, I did forget about Iran Air. It was shot down by a Navy crew sitting in a dark CIC looking at dots on radar screens.

Big mistake. The US immediately apologized and paid major reparations.

Now right off the top of my head I can think of two KAL airliners, one a 707 and the other a 747 that were visually ID'd by Soviet fighters and then shot down.

The Soviet Union, IIRC, never apologized to anyone when they did those. I'm pretty sure they didn't pay any reparations, either. Unless it was years and years later under Yeltsin.

Seems a pretty big difference to me.

But you are right. The US did accidentally shoot down that Iran air.

So, I'll amend my statement to say "We also don't intentionally shoot down CIVILIAN AIRLINERS in our own airspace OR in International Airspace.

Bowser, this has been thrashed a few times, but it is TOTALLY the responsibility of the interecepting aircraft to "maintain separation". Further, in all of aviation, the slower less maneuvrable craft has the right of way. It's the fault of the Chinese pilot. Period.

[This message has been edited by Toad (edited 04-05-2001).]

TheWobble · « **Reply #31 on:** April 05, 2001, 07:52:00 PM »

Bowser..if you are flying SO close to GIANT plane like that and following SOO close that all it has to do is turn a bit to "hit you" its YOUR fault.

chisel · « **Reply #32 on:** April 05, 2001, 08:19:00 PM »

The Americans threw money at the problem so I guess it was OK for them to kill Civilians "by accident"

Boroda Its good to have you around to help see things from 'the other side'

Just goes to show the truth lies somewhere in the middle.

IMO it comes down to Recon crews and interceping planes playng a dangerous game. Either forcing the recon plane to turn away or turn into the countries airspace so it can be forced/shot? down.

China looks like it plays this game a bit rougher than other countries.

Maybe the US pilot got a bit frustrated and decided to put a little scare into the Chinese pilot resulting in this current situation?

Naww, couldnt happen, All American pilots are perfect.

Toad · « **Reply #33 on:** April 05, 2001, 08:48:00 PM »

Yeah, Chisel...

Much, much better to INTENTIONALLY shoot down civilians, don't apologize, don't pay the families of the murdered passengers and then tell the rest of the world to "piss off".

Wonder why the US didn't think of THAT, eh?

Here's to the civilians INTENTIONALLY shot at or shot down by paranoid governments.

29 April 1952 A DC-4 of Air France was shot at by two MiG-15s when approaching Berlin. The aircraft was damaged and three passengers wounded.

23 July 1954 A Cathay Pacific DC-4 was shot down by Chinese La-9 fighters near Hainan. 10 people on board were killed and 8 survived.

27 July 1955 A Lockheed Constellation of El Al was shot down by Bulgarian aircraft. All 40 on board were killed.

30 June 1968 A DC-8 flying near the Kurile islands was forced to land by Soviet fighters. It was carrying a load of US troops to Vietnam.

20 April 1978 A Korean Air Lines Boeing 707 flew over Murmansk while on a Anchorage-Paris flight. It was fired on by Soviet PVO Su-15 interceptors and crash-landed on a frozen lake.

6 September 1983 A Korean Air Lines Boeing 747, was shot down over Sakhalin by a Soviet PVO Su-15. All 269 on board were killed.

24 February 1996 Two (civilian) US-registered Cessna 337 twin-engined aircraft, operated by Cuban exiles, were shot down by Cuban MiG-29s over the Florida Straits.

Of course, this list does NOT include armed and unarmed intelligence gathering aircraft OPERATING IN INTERNATIONAL AIRSPACE at the time they were shot at or shot down.

I'd guess that would be another 20-30 incidents.

jato757 · « **Reply #34 on:** April 05, 2001, 09:12:00 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Boroda:

I don't think that EP-3 crew contained only first-class idiots. So I have to admit that they were acting according to their orders.

no, only an idiot would run into a plane 3 or 4 times biger than it !

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CptTrips · « **Reply #35 on:** April 05, 2001, 10:02:00 PM »

I just heard on CNN they mentioned the pilots name had been released. Wong Wei (spelling?). Of course pronounced with the sterotyped accent sounds suspicously like "Wrong Way". I'm sure there'll be a few joke around that one.

Fuggit. Maneuver kill.

But a kills a kill

Wab

TheWobble · « **Reply #36 on:** April 05, 2001, 10:07:00 PM »

I guess in historic Chinese script his name means;

"hummingbird that slamdances with crow"

jato757 · « **Reply #37 on:** April 05, 2001, 11:06:00 PM »

in aces high terms, hot rod goonie bird kills uberr chog, or no its N1K2, H/O dweeb

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[This message has been edited by jato757 (edited 04-05-2001).]

Boroda · « **Reply #38 on:** April 06, 2001, 04:09:00 AM »

Well, my commissar position in 25th IAP means that I am responsible for parties, boothing etc

Chisel, what I post here usually isn't what I really think

As you noticed - speaking about political issues I try to provide an opinion based on Soviet way of thinking, and public opinion here in Russia.

Again: I don't know who's to blame for this accident. I don't know why Chineese do not release the crew, it looks stupid and has some unknown purpose. I don't know why the crew surrendered to supposed enemy with an AC full of secrets.

Something is going on that we don't understand. Big Brothers will not let us know all the circumstances until we'll face something ugly.

Toad, col. Osipovich was unable to visualy identify the KAL-007. I still remember his interview on Soviet TV in 1983. It was the first time I understood what a man can feel after he just killed 250 people... Later he said he was so stunned that he had to drink a full glass of vodka before talking to the camera.

The whole story is still a mystery. Some people think Osipovich shot down an RC-135, there were many other versions, and I am 100% sure that we'll never know the truth. Exactly like with the EP-3 accident.

------------------
With respect,
Pavel Pavlov,
Commissar 25th IAP WB VVS

funked · « **Reply #39 on:** April 06, 2001, 04:15:00 AM »

http://users.rcn.com/lana.interport/link/colonel.html

Colonel Osipovich knew exactly what he intercepted. And he coldly shot it down just seconds before it would have exited USSR airspace and safely continued its journey. I don't blame him. It was his duty. Fault lies with the crew of the 747.

TheWobble · « **Reply #40 on:** April 06, 2001, 04:50:00 AM »

Quote

I saw two rows of windows and knew that this was a Boeing," he said. "I knew this was a civilian plane. But for me this meant nothing.....Minutes later, he fired two air-to-air missiles, sending Korean Air Lines Flight 007 crashing into the sea, killing 269 people

What a dick plug.

Argent · « **Reply #41 on:** April 06, 2001, 05:35:00 AM »

***
I guess in historic Chinese script his name means;
"hummingbird that slamdances with crow"
***

OMG LOL Wobble.

Heres one for you.
Restrictions, and face, dont allow the US to trade technology of that nature through to the Chinese *vice versa*. The Chinese need something. They didnt have it. The US did... there was no fighter, the plane just landed... the Chinese have delivery.

Bet they kiss and make up without so much as a 'Fwuck Woo Too'.

I cant believe people are so naive... who is it above said 'on the news they said.....' HOLY HELL

))

We will never know. Just as we'll never know exactly why the Russians and Americans have each opened up on a passenger jet.

Accidents rarely happen in political circles - if they do heads roll BIG TIME. They are however extremely handy excuses.

Dont ya think ?

and Toad...
***
Yes, I did forget about Iran Air. It was shot down by a Navy crew sitting in a dark CIC looking at dots on radar screens.
***

Your point being ?

[This message has been edited by Argent (edited 04-06-2001).]

Fishu · « **Reply #42 on:** April 06, 2001, 05:39:00 AM »

Wasn't there a case where US recon plane was shadowing itself by assistance of a passenger jet and then this passenger plane got shot down because of this?

GRUNHERZ · « **Reply #43 on:** April 06, 2001, 06:39:00 AM »

I saw this on CNN this evening. Apparently this pilot Wong Wei was a known hot dog on these intecept flights. Actually the US filed a complaint to China in January regarding his plane's unusually close appraches to the US surveilance aircraft, even coming as close as 10 feet. There is supposedly film footage or still pictures shot by some EP-3 crew of Wei's F-8 doing something stupid or dangerous in one intercept, even of him holding up a sign in the cocpit with some e-mail adress. It seems this time he just went too far, kinda sucks he was prolly just having fun and now he lost his life. Plus this whole stupid international incident- just a stupid uneccesary mess.

And yes all my good (former?) commie eternally paranoid russian friends we all know CNN is of course the Official US State Department News Agency.

GRUNHERZ · « **Reply #44 on:** April 06, 2001, 06:52:00 AM »

Golly-geen funked that russian pilot is sick diddly, after knowingly killing 270 innocent people, he complains that his bonus wasnt what he "expected". Man do I diddlying hate the god-damned retarded limited backward cold fearful primitve communist mindset. I diddlying hate them, they robbed half of Europe of a good 50 years progress and prosperity- and will prolly rob the former communist areas of the next 50 years- at least till all the communist perverted minds die off. Man I really hate that diddlying retarded system, Im so diddlying happy I live in US now.

And all you commie apologists diddly off!

Author Topic: How does an EP-3 ram a fighter? (Read 4580 times)

TheWobble

chisel

jato757

TheWobble

jato757

funked

TheWobble