2 Norwegian coastguard inspectors kinapped

[Estel]

Originally posted by Nilsen
They are prolly quoting either the Russian trawler or the company that owns it. I'm sure the Helo crew knew if they had thrown a net or not.

The CG decided to not board, ram or stop the trawler in any way because of the risk in the heavy seas.... why would they then try to stop it with a net in the very same heavy seas? It would seriously endanger the trawler, its crews and the CG personel if it could not manuver in those conditions.

30 minutes ago I had to listen an interview of Norway CG admiral....

He confirmed that Norway CG ships made few shots crossing course of the trawler. Also he said that dropping the net from helo's or plane is a normal pratice to stop the boat in the sea. And they used it many times against norway fishing boats.

Now the main part. Norway side has not given any proofs of fault of crew of a trawler.

[Nilsen]

Originally posted by Estel
30 minutes ago I had to listen an interview of Norway CG admiral....

He confirmed that Norway CG ships made few shots crossing course of the trawler. Also he said that dropping the net from helo's or plane is a normal pratice to stop the boat in the sea. And they used it many times against norway fishing boats.

Now the main part. Norway side has not given any proofs of fault of crew of a trawler.

You better hire some new translators or replace your news crews..

What "shots crossing course of the trawler"?

Yes... It is normal practise to drop nets or use lines to stop Norewgian fishingboats IN GOOD WEATHER.

We have given ALL the evidence to the russians and are prosecuting from this side of the bprder too.

Here is a picture taken onboard of Elektron of nets with 80mm holes... too small

[Estel]

Ok Hang, let's begin......

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 3. The regulations about borders of the given zone are accepted only by Norway. Other countries, including Russia, did not sign agreements on the given territory wich is by default the international waters.

4. As we know, intercepting the ship in the international waters is piracy.

5. If our authorities will arrest those inspectors they will go to court on charge in a piracy.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Propaganda.

Canada and Finland? Only 2 from 39?

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Forgot to say. USA don't accept guarding zone too.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Propaganda.

Just a fact.

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Looks like you don't see difference between "economical zone" and "fishguarding zone". If you don't know, these things are different. The trawler was in "fishguarding zone".
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


And tell me Estel.. is it not Norway that does the fishguarding, to protect the area from illegal fishing procedures?

Propaganda.

This fishguarding is unlawful. A fact.

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
There is nothing about our trawler made something unlawful.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Propaganda. (i'm being kind. looks like a bald faced lie to me)

But Norway still can not issue any proofs.

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Be glad, you are not norway sailor from norway trawler wich don't get 120mm holes in hull, when they are fishing in our economy zone. Usually they are dropping fish and running away to Norway territory. But you gave us a good learning. Now we will shoot them.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Propaganda. Boastful, but still..

Just facts.

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
When trawler began manuevering to establish course into Russian territory, inspectors was offered to leave the ship. But they denied it. They said that they have an order to stay on the ship. After that captain informed them again, that the trawler is headed to Murmansk. But inspectors denied again.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Propaganda.

Confirmed by inspectors in interview.

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Another part of this agreement was about cooperated duty of our border guard ships in the region. For example, norway ships can be under the protection of russian border ships and vice versa. But here began strange situations, when our ship is on duty, Norway coast guard is not present in the region and all trawlers, russian and norway are feeling ok. Just our ship is living area, Norway coast guard beginning unlawful arrests and punishments.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



I doubt seriously the Norwegians consider themselves ‘protected’ by anything flying a Russian flag. And vice versa.

Propaganda.

Only facts. In 2001 our borderguard ships were there all of the time.

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
No. They did it. They arrested the ship. Withdrawn all journals and personal documents. Also withdrawn flag certificate. And tryed to tow the trawler Norvegian port. But the cable was torn.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



She was never under tow, no documents were removed from the vessel.

Propaganda.

Nothing to say. You can see it on your TV.

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Norwegian plane tryed to stop "Elektron" by droping the net while overflying. But missed and catched another trawler "Arlashkin". "Arlashkin" lost the speed. The rescue ship "Purga" is headed to "Arlashkin" now. As was said by Border authorities, "Elektron" can achieve border at 0100am Oct 19.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Now, this is ALMOST as good as Boroda’s Propaganda. Better, but still..

Propaganda.

Confirmed by Norway CG admiral. Confirmed by Arlashkin captain. Confirmed by Elektron crew. Confirmed by the crew of another trawler who didn't leave them without help in the storm.

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The captain of trawler Arlashkin is declaring that ship and crew is in danger. As it known, norwegian plane dropped "delt" the net onto the Elektron but missed and catched Arlashkin. Trawler lost the speed. The main engine is stopped. The weather is nord-west 9, wave 4-6 meters. Wind 25-28 m/sec. The Mount Kent trawler wich is near Arlashkin can not evacuate the crew due to weather. Yea guys. You are the best. Catched wrong ship and leaved her without help in the storm.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



No better, really.

Just more of the same… PROPAGANDA.

Official radiomessage.

Ask somebody what does it mean, to stay without main engine in the storm. BTW, leaving the ship without help in the storm is crime. But CG did it.
Only facts.

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
In 1947 USSR denied an offer to divide Border Guarding duty and Administration duty between Norway and USSR. So Norway did it all alone. Was it really hard work to establish these duties alone? Sure, you must understand, that USSR was ruined after the war. And didn't have money, personnel or anybody else to divide this work with Norway. How do you think, could this denying be a way to the problem of 1951 and when later, Norway issued problems for our fishers?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Circular logic mixed with Propaganda.

Only facts.

..Propaganda.

Thanks for playing Estel!

So, so, so. What do we have? Looks like only the liar who cannot correctly issue own at all, poor ideas.

Take a time. Take a book and read it. Hope it will help you. And sometime you will understand what is propaganda. And I hope you'll understand what is the power of facts also.

[Estel]

Originally posted by Nilsen

Here is a picture taken onboard of Elektron of nets with 80mm holes... too small

Sorry, but there is no ruler near the net. So nobody can say, what is the real size. There is no court wich will accept something like this.

[Nilsen]

Debating this any further is pointless... Everyone else seems to accept it.

Have a nice day

[MrRiplEy[H]]

Sorry, but there is no ruler near the net. So nobody can say, what is the real size. There is no court wich will accept something like this.

And if there was a ruler the next claim would be that the ruler is out of scale.

[Wilbus]

Originally posted by Estel
Sorry, but there is no ruler near the net. So nobody can say, what is the real size. There is no court wich will accept something like this.

And each and every post is getting more desperate and pathetic.

They should have sank the freaking trawler and done it fast before anyone could've taken pictures of the POS sinking. I mean, without any pictures the Norwegian CG couldn't have been held responsible. They might have been held responsible if there was a ruler in the pictures though...

[Estel]

Originally posted by MrRiplEy[H]
And if there was a ruler the next claim would be that the ruler is out of scale.

No. There are rules how to collect proofs. As I understand, they are the same in the world.

The next claim is: Norway has no right to establish fisherguard zone. So if they want to punish somebody for overfishing, big or small sized nets or something else, they are welcome. But only for their own citizens. And also for Canadians and Finns. All who accepted this zone. Their agreement with unlawful zone is their own business. If they want to play with these rules they are welcome. But I want to let them play alone.

[MrRiplEy[H]]

Translated: Russia will not follow any rules except its own. International treaties will be followed solely when they benefit mother russia. Nothing has changed since the soviet times. I'm not surprised though.

[Boroda]

Originally posted by Wilbus
LOL OUCH! The Commie propaganda machine is really moving on this one.

JFYI: there is no more "commie propaganda" for 15 years now.

But you guys don't know it. I LOVED it when Hortlund described 1808 war with Sweden: "And then Soviets attacked us!"

[Boroda]

Originally posted by MrRiplEy[H]
Russia has a history of seeing things in their own way. We finns know the best -  after they pinned a war they started on us.

Nothing like repeating a lie untill it becomes the truth.

Quite funny to hear such things from a country that still believes that two defeats in1940 and 1944 were their victories

Yes, we see things in our own way, not in someone esle's. It's a shame if Finns don't see things in their own way.

[Boroda]

Originally posted by Nilsen
Canada and Finland are so far the only countries supporting our claim for the 200nm _economical sone_ around Svalbard.  

Hmm. If you spend some money on publicity - I am sure that Australia, NZ and Tuvalu will support your claim.

So far Svalbard is under mutual control, isn't it? Why didn't USSR declare it a Soviet economical zone? Estel, please, correct me if I am wrong.

[Estel]

Originally posted by MrRiplEy[H]
Translated: Russia will not follow any rules except its own. International treaties will be followed solely when they benefit mother russia. Nothing has changed since the soviet times. I'm not surprised though.

Let's imagine. You and three your neighbours are participating in agreement. The rules are: all of you can leave own car on the parking.
Now. One of the neighbors is closing half of the parking. Not looking on the agreement. And denying you to park your car there due to outstanding reasons. What will you do? Perhaps you will go to the judge. And you'll show him an agreement.

I showed you an agreement. Russia have right to fish there. And Norway do not have right to deny it. Period.

[Boroda]

Originally posted by Nilsen
Russians are acually some of the finest and most hospitable people I have ever met. Too bad so many of them still see the world from a 1970's perspective. Must be propaganda from the past that still lingers in the back of their minds or some kind of pride.

Thanks. The problem is that we understand that Russia has it's own interests. This simple fact is almost brainwashed away in our strange times

I know about Norvegian assistance that is sometimes vital for our Northern regions.

That's why I am really upset about this idiotic story. There was stupidity and incompetence on both sides

Estel really opened my eyes on some facts. As far as I saw - you didn't provide any answer to the documents he quoted here. I don't like some foreign forces arresting Russian trawlers, and I'll not be glad if Russian Northern Fleet will have to escort fishing boats, but I hope that common sence will be used and the conflict will be solved for mutual benefit.

[Boroda]

Originally posted by Estel
Let's imagine. You and three your neighbours are participating in agreement. The rules are: all of you can leave own car on the parking.
Now. One of the neighbors is closing half of the parking. Not looking on the agreement. And denying you to park your car there due to outstanding reasons. What will you do? Perhaps you will go to the judge. And you'll show him an agreement.

I showed you an agreement. Russia have right to fish there. And Norway do not have right to deny it. Period.

It's useless to appeal to logics in such cases. Everyone knows that Russians are not human and don't deserve anything more then concentration camps.

In the same case when Americans fish in Russian economical zones in Far East - it's OK. God bless Shevardnadze.