Author Topic: Liberal Folly  (Read 981 times)

Offline midnight Target

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 15114
Liberal Folly
« on: October 17, 2005, 06:16:13 PM »
Got your attention huh?

Really quick observation...

Liberals have always hung their hat on a staunch personal freedom platform. We have no qualms about fighting for fringe right to free speechers or fringe religious freedoms or fringe whatevers as long as personal freedoms are protected... and I support this wholeheartedly.

Where we are missing the boat is on the 2nd Amendment. If the Dems decided that a strict personal freedom interpretation of the 2nd was part of their platform for 2008... the Reps would be in disarray. Democrats just need to be in favor of all personal freedoms (including abortion) and the Republicans would wallow in the stench of a lost cause.

Offline Charon

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3705
Liberal Folly
« Reply #1 on: October 17, 2005, 06:52:14 PM »
It's an interesting thought. I don't see the Democrats hopping on that boat nationally any more than I see the Republicans supporting the 1st Amendment right to flag burning though. This is an issue that will be publicly positioned against but will vary depending on voter Demographics. In the Chicago collar counties most Republicans are fiscal conservatives (if that still really applies for the party) but social liberals so not even they support the 2nd Amendment to any degree.

We need that perfect moderate, mainstream Libertarian party to win one or two, whenever such a beast comes into existence :)

I interviewed a guy from Cato about some of the energy related business/public issues that are going on and after the formal part I asked him about libertarian political chances. We didn't talk about the 2nd Amendment, but he said on social issues, as hard as it was for him to say it, it made more sense to vote Democrat these days. Both parties are intrusive, both are for big government, big welfare (corporate vs. citizen), Republican spending is out of control, the Patriot Act, gay marriage, drug laws, etc. Didn’t seem to consider the likelihood of a pure libertarian push in government, but more which party more embraced the libertarian ideal. He wasn't really happy with the Democrats by any means, but he was really concerned about the intrusiveness of the Republican right. He felt it was barely the lesser of two evils, and seemed pained to say it.

Charon

Offline Gunslinger

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 10084
Liberal Folly
« Reply #2 on: October 17, 2005, 07:03:02 PM »
If you had a democrat or group of democrats that were strong on the 2nd amendment and strong on the border issue.....they'd probably have no problems in getting a clean sweep.  A little religion here or there wouldn't hurt either.


]

Offline GtoRA2

  • Persona Non Grata
  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 8339
Re: Liberal Folly
« Reply #3 on: October 17, 2005, 07:37:21 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by midnight Target
Got your attention huh?

Really quick observation...

Liberals have always hung their hat on a staunch personal freedom platform. We have no qualms about fighting for fringe right to free speechers or fringe religious freedoms or fringe whatevers as long as personal freedoms are protected... and I support this wholeheartedly.

Where we are missing the boat is on the 2nd Amendment. If the Dems decided that a strict personal freedom interpretation of the 2nd was part of their platform for 2008... the Reps would be in disarray. Democrats just need to be in favor of all personal freedoms (including abortion) and the Republicans would wallow in the stench of a lost cause.


I have been saying that for years.

Even more so now with gun popularity up since 911 and Katrina.


Yet they won't change, they will keep being anti gun.

Mostly because who is going to believe boxer or fienstien ect if they change on this after all these years?

storch

  • Guest
Liberal Folly
« Reply #4 on: October 17, 2005, 07:38:41 PM »
merely saying liberal implies folly

Offline bustr

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 12436
Liberal Folly
« Reply #5 on: October 17, 2005, 08:10:50 PM »
You cannot control the lives of your voters by allowing them to have guns and any knowlege of the corrolation between wheapons and the control that has on governments. If you want them to ask government for everything, thats too much personal freedom, and the personal ability to say "NO" to the government.

Nothing wrong with personal freedom. Good stuff. As Rome practiced all those personal and Liberal freedoms to the hilt.....it died. But man did they have some great times before the fall.........................:aok
bustr - POTW 1st Wing


This is like the old joke that voters are harsher to their beer brewer if he has an outage, than their politicians after raising their taxes. Death and taxes are certain but, fun and sex is only now.

Offline Hangtime

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 10148
Re: Liberal Folly
« Reply #6 on: October 17, 2005, 08:19:37 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by midnight Target
Got your attention huh?

Really quick observation...

Liberals have always hung their hat on a staunch personal freedom platform. We have no qualms about fighting for fringe right to free speechers or fringe religious freedoms or fringe whatevers as long as personal freedoms are protected... and I support this wholeheartedly.

Where we are missing the boat is on the 2nd Amendment. If the Dems decided that a strict personal freedom interpretation of the 2nd was part of their platform for 2008... the Reps would be in disarray. Democrats just need to be in favor of all personal freedoms (including abortion) and the Republicans would wallow in the stench of a lost cause.


That's an electrifying statement.


Damn.


Double damn.


Who's gonna shoot Feinstein, Sharpton and Jackson for us? And while we're at it, anybody else belong on the list?
The price of Freedom is the willingness to do sudden battle, anywhere, any time and with utter recklessness...

...at home, or abroad.

Offline Vulcan

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 9913
Re: Liberal Folly
« Reply #7 on: October 17, 2005, 08:36:02 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by midnight Target
Got your attention huh?


liberal folly, i thought it was some chick flashing... :(

Offline Gunslinger

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 10084
Re: Re: Liberal Folly
« Reply #8 on: October 17, 2005, 09:04:53 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Hangtime


Who's gonna shoot Feinstein, Sharpton and Jackson for us? And while we're at it, anybody else belong on the list?


Teddy maybe?  Howard "YEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAARRRRRGGHH" Dean?

Offline Eagler

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 18791
Liberal Folly
« Reply #9 on: October 17, 2005, 09:11:38 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by bustr
Nothing wrong with personal freedom. Good stuff. As Rome practiced all those personal and Liberal freedoms to the hilt.....it died. But man did they have some great times before the fall.........................:aok


ding! ding! ding!!

was there abortions in Rome? just wondering as that has to be my favorite "personal freedom" the dems like to rally around
"Masters of the Air" Scenario - JG27


Intel Core i7-13700KF | GIGABYTE Z790 AORUS Elite AX | 64GB G.Skill DDR5 | 16GB GIGABYTE RTX 4070 Ti Super | 850 watt ps | pimax Crystal Light | Warthog stick | TM1600 throttle | VKB Mk.V Rudder

Offline GRUNHERZ

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 13413
Liberal Folly
« Reply #10 on: October 17, 2005, 09:16:25 PM »
Not gonna happen MT, the democratic pary relies too much on urban sociailst anti gun, essentially anti old us culture types these days. A centrist traditional democrat just doesnt serve that demo.Similar thing with republicans and the evangelicals today.

You have to pay a lot of lip service to them on the big issues.

Offline Gunslinger

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 10084
Liberal Folly
« Reply #11 on: October 17, 2005, 10:55:48 PM »
Basically what this thread is saying is that If they democrats became libertarions, we'd vote for them.

Offline john9001

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 9453
Liberal Folly
« Reply #12 on: October 17, 2005, 11:11:59 PM »
liberals in support of the 2nd Amendment? Really MT , you should not smoke that stuff, it will stunt your growth.

Offline lazs2

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 24886
Liberal Folly
« Reply #13 on: October 18, 2005, 08:30:08 AM »
MT... on the surface that makes a lot of sense.... 80 million gun owners and 64% of the population thinks that the NRA is a good organization

problem is.... democrats and liberals want socialism which is the oppossite of personal freedom... that part allways shrilly shines through...

The reason they are against guns so much is that guns are a threat to socialism and big government and represent individuals  shunning the help of government.

how do you make afirmative action look like personal freedom?  Rent control?  EPA?  Land grabbing? abortion (for the aborted)?  fighting vouchers?   Making everyone pay for someone else?  Dividing wealth and sticking it to the rich?  Bussing?  Hate crimes?

Let me say that I agree with personal freedom no matter who espouses it and if the democrats really were trying to get government out of our lives I would support them... they are not... and... they are being extremely dishonest about it.

It's a package...  The democrat package stinks worse than week old fish wrapped in the newspapers they control.

Gun control is a good start tho... A united democratic message to allow stengthen the second amendment would siphon off a lot of votes.

democrats weren't so bad when I first started voting.... even tho they were the ones fighting civil rights.

lazs

Offline lasersailor184

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 8938
Liberal Folly
« Reply #14 on: October 18, 2005, 10:28:12 AM »
Disagree completely.


The democrats would lose more votes then they would gain.
Punishr - N.D.M. Back in the air.
8.) Lasersailor 73 "Will lead the impending revolution from his keyboard"