Spit variants - squadron service dates?

[Karnak]

The bulk of Mk VIIIs were powered by Merlin 66s.  I don't know the precise number though.  The Merlin 63s were rare and I don't see the need to add that version.

[Guppy35]

Originally posted by Kurfürst
Yeah, that was a really good list Guppy, but unfortunately it doesnt tell if its F, LF, or HF mark...

And we're trying to figure out this why? (edit: Oops, saw your reply after I posted this one Bruno.  I get the point you were after) The favorite of the RAF Spit IX drivers was, in their words, the Spitfire IXB, which officially was known as the Spitfire LFIX with the Merlin 66.

Clearly the first Spit IXs into service were IXAs as the RAF pilots referred to them.  Better known as Spitfire FIX.  

Just found a list in Spit the Hist of the RAF squadrons that operated the FIX including the time frame.  List as follows:

Squadron
1          April-November 44
6          December 45-December 46
19        August 43-January 44
28        August-September 45
32        August 44-March 47
33        December 43-October 44
43        January 44-May 47
56        May-July 44
64        July 42-July 44
65        September 42-October 42.  August-December 43
66        May 43-April 45, September 46-September 47
72        February 43-December 46
73        1944-47
74        1942-45


This clearly doesnt list Auxillary Squadrons, Commonwealth squadrons or folks like the Poles, Czechs, Free French etc.

Bottom line still is that production numbers clearly show far more LFIX built then FIX and HFIX, with not many HFIX built since the airwar had move downwards.  Considering they were using pressurized Spit VII in regular fighter camo with regular wings in 44, this would make sense.

So in the end, it still makes sense to have an FIX for 42-43.  A LFVIII for 43-44 and a clipped LFXVIE for 44-45.  Just a bit of Spitfire heaven for the Spit fans.

[Bruno]

So in the end, it still makes sense to have an FIX for 42-43. A LFVIII for 43-44 and a clipped LFXVIE for 44-45. Just a bit of Spitfire heaven for the Spit fans.

I was hoping to narrow it down a bit more, by month and by squadron...

I am mostly interested in '43 WETO...

[Guppy35]

The list of Spit IX/XVI squadrons and dates of service

[Kev367th]

According to the RAF own website

RE:Mk VIII , all but 1 of the Far East sqns operated Mk VIII's..

[Squire]

: WETO Typhoon, Mossie VI, Boston III, Lancaster? info will be needed too at some point for TOD. I think there is often entirely too much emphasis/debate on Spits, they were not the only combat a/c the RAF deployed 43-44...

Just a friendly heads up.

[Kev367th]

Originally posted by Squire
: WETO Typhoon, Mossie VI, Boston III, Lancaster? info will be needed too at some point for TOD. I think there is often entirely too much emphasis/debate on Spits, they were not the only combat a/c the RAF deployed 43-44...

Just a friendly heads up.

Yup,
Was just the Spits were up for remodel.
We were hoping for a range to cover 40 thru 44/45 (as per 109/190s) but alas it's looking doubtful.
Yes the MkXVI was 1944 plane, but its being brought in at 1943 performance levels (LF IX).
Yet again we will be missing free spits for 1944/45 (with matching performance levels).
Already bent over, just waiting for the inevitable shaft yet again.

[Bruno]

Originally posted by Squire
: WETO Typhoon, Mossie VI, Boston III, Lancaster? info will be needed too at some point for TOD. I think there is often entirely too much emphasis/debate on Spits, they were not the only combat a/c the RAF deployed 43-44...

Just a friendly heads up.

I have plenty of information on those aircraft. This thread is emphasing Spitfires because I am having trouble tracking them down by variant / date / squadron.




Keep on crying Kev (right on que)...

[HoHun]

Hi Bruno,

Maybe this link will help you:

http://www.rafcommands.currantbun.com/Fighter/indexF.html

We once had a very good thread on this forum trying to establish service introduction dates for all types in WW2. Of course, we never managed to get a complete list :-)

In that thread, I suggested using the date of the first combat mission flown in squadron strength as basis for comparison, which seems to have been accepted by most posters at that time.

I believe in the case of the Spitfires, the time difference between service introduction, going operational on the type, and the squadron flying a combat mission typically was quite short, so Dan's table and the link above will probably answer your questions with sufficient accuracy anyway :-)

Still, I'd like to point out that with some types, the time interval was noticable, so it's a good idea to stay aware of the difference between service and combat introduction.

Here's the old thread:

http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=26235

Regards,

Henning (HoHun)

[Bruno]

From the other thread Hohun linked to:

Hi,

here's some Spitfire data:

Spitfire I: 9/1939 (well, in service even earlier)
Spitfire II: 6/1940
Spitfire V: 4/1941
Spitfire IX: 7/1942
Spitfire LF IX: 3/1943 (with 611 Squadron)
Spitfire HF IX: 4/1943 (with 74 Squadron)
Spitfire XIV: 3/1944 (first mission)

Main source: Chaz Bowyer, "Supermarine Spitfire". The LF/HF IX and XIV are from BBS posts which I didn't file away properly :-( Perhaps someone else can confirm these dates?

Regards,

Henning (HoHun)

Hohun thanks for the reply. Squire supplied me with your first link above. Also, here's a link to a 'cut-n-paste' of Aircraft service introduction dates that was compiled on Butch's AAW2 forum:

Aircraft Service Introduction Dates

Here's a link to the original thread on Butch's forums (requires registration)

WW2 Fighter entry into service by date.

[Angus]

Christopher Shore's "Aces High" goes quite well into detail with squadrons and aircraft types. However, it takes quite some compilations to sort all out. I started it with Excel, but never find the time to continue...
Typical, - but anyway, that is a good source.

[Squire]

Intro dates are of course neccesary, as long as we all remember that all combat a/c were introduced into service gradually, with a few exceptions.

Those dates look correct for 1st "squadron sized" units from what I have.  Within a month anyways, without getting into fruitless quibbling.

[Bruno]

The dates I am really interested in is 'squadron deployment' or 'full squadron service'. The problem with production dates and/or delivery dates is you can sometimes find gaps of 'some months' between those dates and 'squadron service' and/or first combat/losses.

The problem with just first combat/loss dates are you may have 1 or 2 squadrons with a particular aircraft who are flying 'combat missions' but for whatever reason they have not made contact.

Speaking of Claims / Combat u. Losses I was finally able to log onto Tony Wood's site:

Combat Claims u. Casualties

In particular I was able to give a quick scan of:

RAF & US Fighter Commands - with annotated text. Issue I 1943 (PDF)

From looking at losses and Ramrod descriptions I see lots of F.IXs, LF.Vbs and LF.Vcs and very few other Spitfire types:

(all the below date from late '43)

RAF 10 & 11 Group: Ramrod 404
Heavy-Bomber Support
09.45 Z: Spitfires & Typhoons

R.A.F. Support in conjunction with Heavy-Bomber Attacks. 12 Typhoon FB.Ib bombers of 183 Squadron took-off from Predannack at 10.00 hrs., to attack the airfields at Brest/Guipavas and Morlaix, but both attacks were rendered abortive owing to unfavourable weather conditions. Uneventful fighter-sweeps over Brittany by 71 Spitfires Vb, Vc and VII of 310, 312, 313, 616, 340 and 341 Squadrons and 15 Typhoons of 193 and 266 Squadrons were also carried out. Withdrawal-support was provided by 24 Spitfires IX* of 131 and 165 Squadrons, and 14 Typhoons of 257 and 266 Squadrons which swept the Brest-Morlaix-St. Brieuc areas. One Typhoon Ib and pilot of 257 Squadron are missing.

Withdrawal-Support: Culmhead

RAF 10 Gp. 165 Sqn. 12 Spitfire LF.Vc 14.10-16.15 Ramrod 404 4 - 0 - 0 E/A No casualty WD-S: St. Brieuc-Paimpol

* type not specified

and

RAF 10 Group Instep-Patrols

RAF 10 Gp. 341 Sqn. 8 Spitfire L.F.Vb 14.18-16.00 Instep 0 - 1 - 2 FW 190 No casualty N.W. Ushant

and

Withdrawal-Support 2nd ATF:
RAF 83 Gp. 403 Sqn. 12 Spitfire F.IX 13.05-15.07 Ramrod 396 2 - 0 - 0 Me 109G No casualty H-BS Ludwigshafen

Now I know none of the above is not proof of anything except that there were F.IXs, LF.Vs etc... were still in service. It will be this weekend before I can got through the list in depth. I know I am most likely being anal about this type of thing but it keeps me busy...

[Squire]

As for the XVIe (sixteen)/IXe, assuming we get it? I do beleive thats June 1944. I will have to dbl check.  

"The dates I am really interested in is 'squadron deployment' or 'full squadron service"

-Yup, those are the ones that matter.

...again, in regards to the Mk.Vs. , L.F. Vs are not Vs. They are a +18 lb boost Merlin 50M, before anybody gets too excited. You will never see them in AH because they are too damn scary.  They would be the best below 10k dogfighter in the game if they ever modelled them. Ahh well, I can dream I guess

[Bruno]

A clipped-winged LF.Vc would have been one plane I asked for, that is if I flew Spitifres...

The XVIe could stand in for an LF.XI, I don't think anyone would object to much, provided it doesn't have the uber 'bubble canopy'...