Author Topic: Patriot Act abuses  (Read 495 times)

Offline Chairboy

  • Probation
  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 8221
      • hallert.net
Patriot Act abuses
« on: October 26, 2005, 02:00:48 AM »
Every Patriot Act thread, some guy shows up and says "Oh yeah?  Well, give some evidence that the Patriot Act has been abused."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/10/23/AR2005102301352.html

We've been warnin' ya, but you didn't listen....
"When fascism comes to America it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." - Sinclair Lewis

Offline Holden McGroin

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 8591
Re: Patriot Act abuses
« Reply #1 on: October 26, 2005, 02:56:03 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Chairboy
Every Patriot Act thread, some guy shows up and says "Oh yeah?  Well, give some evidence that the Patriot Act has been abused."


Quote
From Chairboy's link
In other cases, agents obtained e-mails after a warrant expired, seized bank records without proper authority and conducted an improper "unconsented physical search," according to the documents.


Seems to me this story is about illegal searches and surveillance, things that are illegal and prohibited within the PA and other federal law.

Robbing a bank is not abuse of anti-robbery legislation, it is breaking the law.  The abuses spoken of in the article are violations of the law.

I would think an abuse of the act would be about using the legal avenues the PA opens up for nefarious purposes, not what is noted here.
Holden McGroin LLC makes every effort to provide accurate and complete information. Since humor, irony, and keen insight may be foreign to some readers, no warranty, expressed or implied is offered. Re-writing this disclaimer cost me big bucks at the lawyer’s office!

Offline nirvana

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5640
Patriot Act abuses
« Reply #2 on: October 26, 2005, 02:57:06 AM »
Ah yes, but here's where you made your mistake Chairboy, they are the FBI, they can do WHATEVER THEY PLEASE.  Give me a break, when you give someone the right to conduct surveillance on whoever they want for whatever reason they find fit, they can and will abuse it.  I've known this since The Patriot Act came to my attention (come on i'm 16:huh ).

On a side note Jello Biafra, who many might not even give a flying monkey about what he says, has said in his Oprah interview that he could relate to NWA's song about police (yes "that" one) because his house was broken into and ransacked by 2 LAPD and 7 San Francisco police in the middle of the night for no reason.  They went through his address book comparing names.  They had him sit on a chair in a robe, "it was a subtle form of rape, in a way".  He also relates them to KGB agents.  2 monthes later files are charged against his record label, Alternative Tentacles, and a year and a half later it came to trial.  Now of course most of that centers around Tipper Gore and the PMRC, but I digress.

He also mentions artist Jock Sturgis who's house was also split apart by the FBI, they had planned to take everything he had but left his clothes and animals.  Not totally sure when this speech was, but he hadn't had charges brought against him (Jock Sturgis) up to that point and I think it had been several years.

Love your government:p
Who are you to wave your finger?

Offline Pooh21

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3145
Patriot Act abuses
« Reply #3 on: October 26, 2005, 04:04:00 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by nirvana

...he could relate to NWA's song about police (yes "that" one)


Love your government:p



I like the Bone thugs cover of that one alot.:aok
Bis endlich der Fiend am Boden liegt.
Bis Bishland bis Bishland bis Bishland wird besiegt!

Offline T0J0

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1056
Patriot Act abuses
« Reply #4 on: October 26, 2005, 09:11:50 AM »
"Yawn"

Offline Ripsnort

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 27251
Re: Patriot Act abuses
« Reply #5 on: October 26, 2005, 09:32:24 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Chairboy
Every Patriot Act thread, some guy shows up and says "Oh yeah?  Well, give some evidence that the Patriot Act has been abused."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/10/23/AR2005102301352.html

We've been warnin' ya, but you didn't listen....


Proof? LOL! Hey, I bet the FBI has never done this in its 96 year history, has it!? ;)

Incidently, from your article:
FBI officials disagreed, saying that none of the cases have involved major violations and most amount to administrative errors. The officials also said that any information obtained from improper searches or eavesdropping is quarantined and eventually destroyed

Offline Gunslinger

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 10084
Re: Re: Patriot Act abuses
« Reply #6 on: October 26, 2005, 10:11:37 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Ripsnort
Proof? LOL! Hey, I bet the FBI has never done this in its 96 year history, has it!? ;)

Incidently, from your article:
FBI officials disagreed, saying that none of the cases have involved major violations and most amount to administrative errors. The officials also said that any information obtained from improper searches or eavesdropping is quarantined and eventually destroyed


how dare you introduce logic into the thread rip :O

Offline mosgood

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1548
Re: Patriot Act abuses
« Reply #7 on: October 26, 2005, 10:25:31 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Chairboy
Every Patriot Act thread, some guy shows up and says "Oh yeah?  Well, give some evidence that the Patriot Act has been abused."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/10/23/AR2005102301352.html

We've been warnin' ya, but you didn't listen....


Why do you even post this stuff.  You've been around this board long enough to know that you could have stacks and stacks of material on violations of our rights by the Patriot Act and since  most of these guys aren't interested in even considering new info that might change their beliefs, they'll never really  hear what you're saying.

Offline Chairboy

  • Probation
  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 8221
      • hallert.net
Patriot Act abuses
« Reply #8 on: October 26, 2005, 10:36:28 AM »
Yeah, you're right, but it still frustrates me so much.  This board is full of people who profess how much they love their freedom and liberties, yet when people start threatening those exact rights, they just roll over and take it.
"When fascism comes to America it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." - Sinclair Lewis

Offline Gunslinger

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 10084
Patriot Act abuses
« Reply #9 on: October 26, 2005, 11:11:28 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Chairboy
Yeah, you're right, but it still frustrates me so much.  This board is full of people who profess how much they love their freedom and liberties, yet when people start threatening those exact rights, they just roll over and take it.


Sorry but your bait just wasn't all that stinky.  Having read the article it seems to me at least that it didn't take outside intervention to have aleged abuses of the system and violations investigated.  Thus the system is working.

What I don't like is how people that post this stuff scream the loudest about sept 11th and the intell failures.  PARTS of the patriot act correct those failures and is long overdue.  There are PARTS of the patriot act that are very much worth keeping while others I don't agree with.

Quote
FBI officials disagreed, saying that none of the cases have involved major violations and most amount to administrative errors. The officials also said that any information obtained from improper searches or eavesdropping is quarantined and eventually destroyed


Then there's this little gem:

Quote
Most such cases involve powers granted under the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act, which governs the use of secret warrants, wiretaps and other methods as part of investigations of agents of foreign powers or terrorist groups. The threshold for such surveillance is lower than for traditional criminal warrants. More than 1,700 new cases were opened by the court last year, according to an administration report to Congress.

Offline T0J0

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1056
Patriot Act abuses
« Reply #10 on: October 26, 2005, 01:49:53 PM »
See Rule #4, #5
« Last Edit: October 26, 2005, 02:30:57 PM by Skuzzy »

Offline GreenCloud

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1365
Patriot Act abuses
« Reply #11 on: October 26, 2005, 01:50:15 PM »
chair...after you defended a FAR LEFT Child molestetrs defending Anti-religion Socialist group.. ACLU

Its not worth talking about other subjects with someone in my opinion who is so clouded in their judgement.

I hav ejust recenlty read the BIO of the current presiden tof the ACLU..wow hopefully we will empower the WAR powers act ...Round them up..and put them in detention



and btw..Patriot Act is needed ..Im sure it Can be refined ..but defntly needed..Tahnks to groups like ACLU..we are afraid to "lablel " terrorsits..ya cant say look for a towel head huh?
The Odl grandma looks just as dangerous


Its this PC crap that is ruining our country

My girlfriend is a teacher....They are no longer alooowed to say ..Halloween...How ghey is that...I spit on the ACLU..

IF you want to protect your First Admen...Thats what the 2nd Amend does..we are here to protect the First .................

                                 

NRA

Offline Maverick

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 13916
Patriot Act abuses
« Reply #12 on: October 26, 2005, 02:24:10 PM »
Let the monkey ninja's handle it. They will save us!!!
DEFINITION OF A VETERAN
A Veteran - whether active duty, retired, national guard or reserve - is someone who, at one point in their life, wrote a check made payable to "The United States of America", for an amount of "up to and including my life."
Author Unknown

Offline Chairboy

  • Probation
  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 8221
      • hallert.net
Patriot Act abuses
« Reply #13 on: October 26, 2005, 03:37:18 PM »
Greencloud, I may disagree with the ravings of a lunatic who tilts at windmills, mistakes friend for foe, and frantically shouts mindlessly (with bits of spittle spattering from its mouth as it froths) at those who work to defend it....

....but I will fight to the death to protect your right to do so.  :D

BTW, those of us who defend our 2nd ammendment rights will be those best suited in the long term to protect our families from those abusing the Patriot Act and its progressively anti-liberty children (the legislation that will follow once the sheep accept the concept of trading further liberty for temporary security).  You may think you're against me now, but a generation from now, we may be back to back against a common foe.

Don't lose sight of the long term, that's how they (the people who will inevitably abuse this legislation) get ya.
"When fascism comes to America it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." - Sinclair Lewis

Offline ASTAC

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1654
Patriot Act abuses
« Reply #14 on: October 26, 2005, 03:39:58 PM »
Just my .02

The Patriot Act is an abuse.

They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty or security
-B. Franklin
« Last Edit: October 26, 2005, 03:43:30 PM by ASTAC »
That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety