Author Topic: Serious question about the La7 (Read 2662 times)

dedalos · « **Reply #15 on:** October 28, 2005, 02:38:22 PM »

Its not like no one has ever brought this up before. The answer has always been the same, lead turn, timing, e state, bla bla bla bla.

Read the post again. He did not say how did he end up on my six at guns range. That can be explaned with lead turns, timing, e states etc. The guy said, how did he do a 180, and then run the 51 down. Big difference. It does not just require no e loss, but exceleration on top of that. I see it every day in the DA and MA. SpitV puling a 180, following a g10 up and closing on it. Although I can be wrong in the MA instances, in the DA its a controleld anvironment. I know the G10 is faster than my Spit at the merge, but I still catch him. I call it AH physics. Learn to love it

Crumpp · « **Reply #16 on:** October 28, 2005, 02:49:47 PM »

Quote

Or you could all be incorect in your flight model assesments.

Which one?

That the AH Bf-110 is the best early war fighter the LW has in it's inventory?

Sorry wrong subject, we were talking about the La7........

All the best,

Crumpp

LePaul · « **Reply #17 on:** October 28, 2005, 04:48:35 PM »

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Originally posted by dedalos
Its not like no one has ever brought this up before. The answer has always been the same, lead turn, timing, e state, bla bla bla bla.

Read the post again. He did not say how did he end up on my six at guns range. That can be explaned with lead turns, timing, e states etc. The guy said, how did he do a 180, and then run the 51 down. Big difference. It does not just require no e loss, but exceleration on top of that. I see it every day in the DA and MA. SpitV puling a 180, following a g10 up and closing on it. Although I can be wrong in the MA instances, in the DA its a controleld anvironment. I know the G10 is faster than my Spit at the merge, but I still catch him. I call it AH physics. Learn to love it

Precisely. How can an La7 merge, do a 180 and GAIN on an a high energy/fast fighter like a P-51, G10, etc etc. Its sort of like the "two trains leave point A at the same time...yada yada". I'm just trying to follow the logic, physics, etc. Im not accusing or saying anything is wrong....just HOW. It would seem to me that the aircraft that maintained speed and heading would keep a significant lead over the La7 that did a 180 degree turn.

hitech · « **Reply #18 on:** October 28, 2005, 05:04:34 PM »

The answere is simple LePaul. He was faster than your p51 to begin with.

The thing is, it seems everyone makes these claims how somthing strange things happened to them. Never the other way around. And 2nd how there never seems to be a film of these strange events. Possible because every time some one looks at the strange event film , it turned out not to be strange and hence not worth posting?

So what do you belive is more probable. 1st something strange with the la7, but after multiple years there never seems to be a film of the strangness. Or the 2nd probablitly, you miss judged his E state or direction at the merge ?

HiTech

LePaul · « **Reply #19 on:** October 28, 2005, 05:16:38 PM »

Im trying not to interpet your reply as a flame, more a tongue-in-cheek response.

I film most of my bomber sorties for films...since I dont fly fighter much, I tend not to film them. Im filming everything lately.

I've also posted this link to my squaddies to chime in on.

My question was just that, how could something catch up so fast. How can an La7 match a faster plane? It just seems the La7 has *no* weaknesses in the game.

1K3 · « **Reply #20 on:** October 28, 2005, 05:23:20 PM »

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It just seems the La7 has *no* weaknesses in the game.

Ivan Kozhedub loves LA-7 and he shot 2 mustangs with it

SuperDud · « **Reply #21 on:** October 28, 2005, 05:54:20 PM »

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Originally posted by LePaul
I film most of my bomber sorties for films...since I dont fly fighter much, I tend not to film them.

That response is probably the key. If you don't know fighters very well then you probably don't understand the different merges, angles and E states. I bet the lala had way more E and did a very effeceint merge to get you. BTW, if you saw he was gaining why didn't you at least turn and try something...anything? I never understand why ppl just fly straight and level hoping to outrun someone.

1K3 · « **Reply #22 on:** October 28, 2005, 06:39:46 PM »

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Originally posted by Krusty
We all do. But the thing is it never changes, so while we care there's nothing we can do about it. Just accept that nothing in this game even resembles "historical" flight-wise. If you accept that you can play within this arbitrary system.

WTG:cool:

i dont want AH to turn like IL-2 game online. IL-2 makes FM changes so much that both sides are crying foul. For example, Maddox just released a new patch and the axis sides are crying foul because allied 50 cals got uber. Many claim Maddox is pro axis when it comes to FM modeling.

To prevent AH from turning to "IL-2" is to be conservative. make less radical changes:)

Shane · « **Reply #23 on:** October 28, 2005, 06:59:14 PM »

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Originally posted by LePaul
It just seems the La7 has *no* weaknesses in the game.

sure it does... the pilot.

HoHun · « **Reply #24 on:** October 28, 2005, 07:07:08 PM »

Hi Hitech,

>Possible because every time some one looks at the strange event film , it turned out not to be strange and hence not worth posting?

Reminds me of an Arthur C. Clarke quote:

"I don't believe in UFOs. I have seen too many of them."

(He found a natural explanation not involving aliens for each of his UFO sightings. Much to his disappointment!)

Regards,

Henning (HoHun)

bozon · « **Reply #25 on:** October 29, 2005, 05:53:26 AM »

There's a huge amount of misconceptions as how aircrafts "should" behave. Then again, even a plane's engineers don't always know how a drawing board design will behave in R/L and rely on trial and error. The most common is the "wingloading" illusion - which is nothing more that a VERY ROUGH estimate for something not very well defined and still so many like to compare it.

Is AH clean of FM quirks? hell no, but it's not like HT can test the real things and correct accordingly. Bugs and errors are possible too but needs to be documents to be dealt with => film.

Bozon

Krusty · « **Reply #26 on:** October 29, 2005, 03:30:50 PM »

You're right bozon... but there are lots of other things you can go by. If everybody that FLEW the planes said an la7 could out dive a 109 only at first, but the 109 would then surpass it in the dive, but if our AH la7 outdives a 109 completely, it's a clue that things aren't all perfect.

So no, we cannot compare to the real things, most of the time. But we can compare observations others have made about them.

Crumpp · « **Reply #27 on:** October 29, 2005, 05:09:12 PM »

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HT can test the real things

Flight tested data does exist.

Since this performance falls within a percentage and not an absolute, it makes for a pretty wide margin of "realistic" performance.

This is a good thing for a Gaming Company and allows them to adjust their computer models, which are an absolute and inherently unrealistic, to balance "gameplay".

When this balance is not achieved or aircraft do not fall with their historical roles players have grounds for complaint.

All the best,

Crumpp

BUG_EAF322 · « **Reply #28 on:** October 29, 2005, 05:35:36 PM »

O sure u say planes are neutered or ubered just becoz of gameplay ?
Is that what u want to say ?

INteresting.

Knegel · « **Reply #29 on:** October 30, 2005, 08:47:44 AM »

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Originally posted by hitech

The thing is, it seems everyone makes these claims how somthing strange things happened to them. Never the other way around. And 2nd how there never seems to be a film of these strange events. Possible because every time some one looks at the strange event film , it turned out not to be strange and hence not worth posting?

So what do you belive is more probable. 1st something strange with the la7, but after multiple years there never seems to be a film of the strangness. Or the 2nd probablitly, you miss judged his E state or direction at the merge ?

HiTech

Hey,

most people i know, who are good pilots and like a challenge dont use the La7, SpitV, Tempest or F4U. At least i always wonder about the very easy kills if i fly a SpitV or La7. I dont need to think about E-fight, i turn like i want and need to make horrible mistakes to lose.

With a FW190A8 vs a La7 its most easy visible. Even if the A8 have plenty of altitude advantage, after the 1st attack and following upzoom the La7 hang on its tail. SpitV vs 109G10 or FW190A5 is another easy visible extreme. The 190A5 only can run, but even in a smooth dive it have probelms to get away, every turn result in much E-bleed, while the SpitV simply dont lose E. But a much more light plane with very big wings, with much less power simply should lose more energy while turning. Thats why the real SpitV had bad problems vs the 190A4. It could turn more tight, but lost to much speed while that and while highspeed manouvers in general, so they wasnt able to disengage, neighter to follow a 190A after a evaded attack(similar like Yak9 vs 190D9 in AH).

Greetings, Knegel