Each nation's most powerful service engine?

[Karnak]

That is why I specified common service engines.  I know there were some pretty nice things just about to come out, but those really fall outside the scope of WWII as the end of hostilities precluded them.

[Porta]

Originally posted by MiloMorai

It should also be pointed out that German engines gave their best output at SL and then the power dropped off with altitude.
[/url]

Hmm, you should better check that.

[Angus]

Well, what got me thinking was this:

"In terms of frontal area I was thinking last night about that in comparing the fact that the bigger Griffon engine has a smaller frontal area than the Merlin it was replacing in the Spitfires."

Are you really sure? The Griffon has some bulges on the top and anyway, seeing the engines side by side, I rather had the impression that the Griffon was a tad larger.

[Karnak]

Angus,

The only source I have seen it mentioned has it listed as a smaller frontal area.  It is a bigger and heavier engine, but I'd guess it does it through length.  I'm sure it is not much smaller in the frontal area in any case.

[Kev367th]

Yup it was length (see it does matter)
Look at difference between a Merlin Spits nose and a Griffon Spits nose, it's really easy to see.

[Charge]

I think Spit benefited from Griffons also aerodynamically. The bluntish angle from under the nose was deleted by changing the angle of the engine lower and by a bigger spinner. FrontallyI'd say Griffon is slightly larger but not much (can't say for sure). OTOH it must be slightly smaller if the oil container is under the nose also in Griffon engined Spits. Griffon Spits have those protrusions for camcovers.

The DBs also got larger and, IIRC, in some models of 109 the oilcontainer was made inside the engine mount arm because it did not fit anywhere else (..or was it in 190D?).

-C+

[Kurfürst]

Power outputs, the DB 605A delivered 1475 Ps at SL, which is usually qouted, and 1550 PS at 2.1km (peak value). If it would be a British engine, it would be credited as '1550 HP aero engine' after it's peak power output. It's similiar with all DB engines.

The DB 601 and 605 should be nearly identical in size, given the 605 only upbored the 601's cylinders with apprx. 2 liters. Even the Db 603 was not much larger frontally than the 605, though it was lenghtier.

Anyone has Merlin dimensions handy ? I've got them for the Griffon 65 I think.

Charge, I think the Emil had different positioning of the oil tank, but all later Bf 109s (and many other with a DB engine) had their oil tank situated right ahead of the engine, a horseshoe-shaped tank around the reduction gear. I think you mixed up with the two coolant tanks of the DB engine on the sides of the engine.

[FDutchmn]

Originally posted by Karnak
Engine power is, to a large degree, the determining factor in how powerful a fighter can be.  I am wondering what the most powerful domestic engine each or the six warring nations got into significant service was?  What I mean is engines that were used in the hundreds or thousands, not a few tens of custom built engines.

Germany: BMW 801Dg at 2,100hp?
Italy: Piaggio P.XIX at 1,175hp?
Japan:  Ha-45-21 at 1,990hp?
UK: Napier-Sabre at 2,180hp?
USA: R2800-77 at 2,800hp?
USSR: ASh-82FN at 1,850hp?

What are the correct answers.  Those are my guesses, but I am not sure.

Karnak,

Just a quick search on the web, and I found from Aircraft of the World that:

Ki-84 was equipped with the Nakajima Ha-45-21 which rated at 1990 hp for takeoff and 1850 hp at 5740 feet.

and...

N1K2-J was equipped with the Nakajima NK9H Homare 21 which rated at 1990 hp for takeoff, 1825 hp at 5740 feet, 1625 hp at 20,015 feet.

Comparable?  I am not sure how many of the Ki-84s were equipped with that specific engine... while the N1K2-J, we know it numbered in the 400s.

[Karnak]

FDutchman,

Yup, that is the Homare Ha-45-21 engine that I had listed.  I know there were more powerful versions of the Mitsubishi Ha-43 engine, but they didn't make it into service thanks to shortsightedness on the part of the IJN/Mitsubishi managers, an earthquake and B-29s of the USAAF.

[FDutchmn]

Originally posted by Karnak
FDutchman,

Yup, that is the Homare Ha-45-21 engine that I had listed.  I know there were more powerful versions of the Mitsubishi Ha-43 engine, but they didn't make it into service thanks to shortsightedness on the part of the IJN/Mitsubishi managers, an earthquake and B-29s of the USAAF.

oops... ya right ... they both the same engine!

[Masherbrum]

Originally posted by MiloMorai
It should also be pointed out that German engines gave their best output at SL and then the power dropped off with altitude.

for the DB605, http://mitglied.lycos.de/luftwaffe1/aircraft/lw/DB605_varianten.pdf

The TA-152 dispells your theory.

Karaya

[MiloMorai]

Originally posted by Masherbrum
The TA-152 dispells your theory.

Karaya

It does?

Jumo 213E as used in the Ta 152H

Climb&combat, SL - 1580 hp/3000rpm
Climb&combat, 10.7km - 1260hp/3000rpm

[Crumpp]

The BMW801TS motor was a 2400hp motor at 1.82ata @ 2700U/min.

All the best,

Crumpp

[justin_g]

It can't be mere coincidence that the most powerful engines were all 2-row radials(excepting the freak sleeve-valve H-24 from the UK)?

[Karnak]

Originally posted by justin_g
It can't be mere coincidence that the most powerful engines were all 2-row radials(excepting the freak sleeve-valve H-24 from the UK)?

Well, keep in mind that Japan did no serious development of liquid cooled engines, so that discounts Japan.  In Germany the big Daimler-Benz 605 peaked at over 2,000hp.  The liquid cooled Griffon 65 peaks at about 2,200hp.

So looking at that the only engine that stands out significantly is the massive R-2800 series of two row radials from the USA. All the peak engines from the UK and Germany are in a pretty tight cluster for peak power, a lower grouping for Japan and the USSR and Italy isn't even in the competition.