Author Topic: The Plane Graphics...  (Read 1539 times)

Offline MANDO

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The Plane Graphics...
« Reply #15 on: November 02, 2005, 12:54:37 PM »
The key of IL2, PF, OFP and almost any other game about graphics is the light itself. In AH the light is "death". Doesnt matter how many polys you add, doesnt matter how good the textures are, what matters above all is light.

Offline Pooface

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« Reply #16 on: November 02, 2005, 01:17:34 PM »
i dont mean detail, i mean the actual terrain. its the same texture over the entire map! its never different. look at the il2 screenie, it may not look great from the ground, but it looks far better than ah because it actually looks like ground. ah ground just looks like a repeating lino floor.

i did not suggest that ah terrain needed a rework, just that we need to have a great deal more terrain tiles, just to mix it up a little. we need things like city tiles, grass, forest, snow, desert, dirt, so that we can make a nice detailed map, that just looks a little better. its not a lot of work, we just need to do the same thing that we did with the skinning team, and create a map making team. it would add SO much to the game

Offline MrRiplEy[H]

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« Reply #17 on: November 02, 2005, 01:18:06 PM »
Why can't terrain detailing be different when looking at tank FE and plane FE? Ground warfare is no reason to change the way trees etc. are modeled for the flight.
Definiteness of purpose is the starting point of all achievement. –W. Clement Stone

Offline Blammo

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« Reply #18 on: November 02, 2005, 01:26:50 PM »
I'd be happy if they just got rid of the kevlar leaves and shrubbery :D
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Offline Karnak

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« Reply #19 on: November 02, 2005, 01:44:50 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by MrRiplEy[H]
Why can't terrain detailing be different when looking at tank FE and plane FE? Ground warfare is no reason to change the way trees etc. are modeled for the flight.

Because the tank driver can't be put in the position of hiding under vegitation that the pilot doesn't even see.

Plane bombs/rockets tank.

TD: "WTF!?!  How'd you  see me?"
P: "What do you mean?"
TD: "I was completely hidden under those trees.  It is BS that you killed me."
P: "Trees?  What trees? You were sitting in the middle of a field."
TD: "BS, I had been driving under trees for the last five minutes."
p: "Nope.  No trees in sight.  Sorry, but I just nailed you fair and square.  Stop whining."
TD: logs out
Petals floating by,
      Drift through my woman's hand,
             As she remembers me-

Offline airmess

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« Reply #20 on: November 02, 2005, 01:47:41 PM »
Don't name the word "IL2" and never link up a "IL2 screenshot". I did it once ... ouuuuutch

;)

Don't look simply on the IL2 terrain. Look at the gameplay as well. IL2 don't has the possibility of mass multyplaying like AH. From this point of view AH has all my credits.

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Offline Pooface

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« Reply #21 on: November 02, 2005, 02:54:27 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by airmess
Don't name the word "IL2" and never link up a "IL2 screenshot". I did it once ... ouuuuutch

;)

Don't look simply on the IL2 terrain. Look at the gameplay as well. IL2 don't has the possibility of mass multyplaying like AH. From this point of view AH has all my credits.

airmess


absolutely! i hate il2, but the graphics ARE better than ah, something that i think we should change. with the intro of all the new ah2 modelling, the planes look really good now, but the terrain is still very basic, and although its a different texture now, its exactly the same as the old terrain type. the terrain model needs to be redone.

Offline Krusty

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« Reply #22 on: November 02, 2005, 03:24:34 PM »
AH1 tiles looked like crap. BUT, what they had going for them (and I'd post a few screenshots if I could) were 2 things:

1) They tiled better. In better patterns. I have an old screenshot I took back when I thought the modeling of the 109E4 looked good (it's an OOOOLLLD screen) that shows the southern part of the old BOB map. It's amazing the way it looks, just for the pattern used.

2) Contrast... If you looked close they were blotchy and looked very 8-bit, but what they had was blotches that were higher contrast, to provide a type of "perceived detail". This usually looked better at a distance, but it was also in effect on the water, and made that look nice (IMO).

For some reason, AH2 tiles look...... blurry. Always blurry. I don't know why. Perhaps it's just how AH2 renders them, compared to AH1.

I think the tiles would look better if people just took a lot of time to create some better ones. The only problem is nobody knows how, and nobody is willing to devote endless hours for such a (relatively) minor detail. Imagine the trial and error... "Hmm.. Let's make a set of tiles with much higher contrast" -- build tiles -- put in map -- fly around testing it -- "Hm.. that didn't work.. Let's try a set of tiles with a brown tint to simulate dirt patches" -- build tiles -- etc etc.

Offline Kweassa

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« Reply #23 on: November 02, 2005, 03:51:32 PM »
Bingo for Karnak and Camo.
 

 Like Camo mentioned,

 Graphics is 80% lighting and 20% details.

 The truth is, you can draw a smurfy picture of nekkid lady and still make it look really sexy if you can give shadows and highlights where it is deserved. On the contrary, a simple line drawing, with no "lightings" whatsoever, will look pretty bland despite the fact that it's a 1:1 scale represantation of a Playmate. I mean, where's the fun in looking at the cleavage?

 The quality of 3D modelling may be better in IL2, but that's not what makes people think it looks better. As for textures, AH plane textures, despite the fact that new standard uses only one BMP file, still in lot of cases are much more detailed than IL2 textures. Also, in many cases, even the quality of terrain textures don't make much of a difference.

 It's almost SOLEY the lightings effect they use that makes the difference.


 And like Karnak said, IL2 terrains are optimized to be viewed from the sky. The trees are everybit as much generic as in other games if viewed from low altitudes. Besides, they don't have much of ground detail in the first place. Grass, hedges, rows, none of that, because they don't need it, since they don't have playable ground warfare.

 Another big trade-off is the fact that AH terrains are FULLY player customizable. IL2 landscape is like a beautiful painting of a building, whereas AH2 landscape is fundamentally, a "LEGO" building block. There can be more clever attempts to hide that fact, but in the end, there's no way a fully customizable terrain which the players can build and change as they desire, can ever be really comparable to a single, set terrain. IL2 map editors do not offer full terrain creation.



 That being said, the limited lightings is probably the biggest problem. The plane lightings is fair enough, but the terrain lightings just don't compare.

Offline Pooface

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« Reply #24 on: November 02, 2005, 04:34:30 PM »
you know, the weirdest thing i find about the ah terrain is the fact that there are no transitions from land to water, eg. no beach, or rocks, or anything like that. and the borders of the water aren't straight, its a really odd looking repeating zig zag :(

Offline 715

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« Reply #25 on: November 02, 2005, 07:03:48 PM »
I vote for better terrain as well... it enhances immersion.  The problem undoubtedly is related to some limit in the number of different terrain textures allowed by the graphics engine.  I'm curious as to what that limit is, whether or not current terrains are at that limit, and whether or not the new graphics engine actually increased the limit and there is room for future improvement.  Obviously, more different visible terrain textures make demands on graphic card resources and it is probably impossible to have a terrain that completely gets away from the repeating kitchen tile look.

All the comments regarding ground detail are spot on.  All flight sims look good at certain altitudes and terrible at others.  AH has the very difficult task of having to handle both long distance views (from airplanes) and very short distance views (from ground vehicles).  That is not an easy task.

Offline DREDIOCK

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« Reply #26 on: November 02, 2005, 07:24:57 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Morpheus
IMO AH1 terrain was better than AH2's terrain.


From the air I agree. Strongly
Death is no easy answer
For those who wish to know
Ask those who have been before you
What fate the future holds
It ain't pretty

Offline RedTop

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« Reply #27 on: November 02, 2005, 07:28:18 PM »
Having a newe Graphics card , I can really tell the difference in the game as to how it looks. IF you have a very high end machine and graphics card you would be suprised as to how good this game really looks from BOTH perspectives. Ground and Air.

I have NO idea what it takes to build tiles or terrains , nor do I really care. I just know that Eye Candy is nice. Being able to see things that I haven't been able to see at longer distances now is good.

The water still looks funky. Whether I have it on or off. Either way I don't really like it all that well.

The trees look nice on the ground and in the air. Not sure why I can't shoot thru them , but hey it is what it is.

The hills and mountains look wonderful from high alts and low alts , but the seem a bit sharp. No idea what it would take to smooth them out. Would be nice of they were tho.

All in all I can say that this game isn't NEAR bad as some I have seen. It is the premier Air Sim I can think of online.
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Offline Easyscor

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« Reply #28 on: November 02, 2005, 09:10:49 PM »
We already have better ground clutter then AH1.  I don't know why we don't have better lighting effects but the gound in AH is 3d, not a photo realistic 2d matt of 3d objects.



It might improve things a lot if there were 16 elevation points per square mile instead of nine.  The gross memory requirements for the elevation file would go from 2.01 MB to 4.72 MB which is not too bad.


The next step beyond that would be 25 points and 8.4 MB for the elevations which is a problem for downloads even compressed in the .res.  The nice thing about it, the elevation points would be about 350 yards apart instead of our current 880 yards so you could build beautiful terrains.  It would also create a lot of extra work for the terrain makers and you'd probably never see the full potential in everyday terrains unless the elevation settings could be automated some way.
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Offline SFRT - Frenchy

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« Reply #29 on: November 02, 2005, 10:01:08 PM »
I'm all for IL2:cool:, but remember that IL2 is a multi CD boxset, while AH is made to be downloaded.
Dat jugs bro.

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