Author Topic: Health Care Report  (Read 933 times)

Offline straffo

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« Reply #15 on: November 05, 2005, 02:50:54 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Ripsnort
;)


I would be happy to pay 60% of my income as I will have the max income :)
Actually it's about 20%.

Offline Ripsnort

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« Reply #16 on: November 05, 2005, 03:50:14 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by straffo
I would be happy to pay 60% of my income as I will have the max income :)
Actually it's about 20%.
:lol  Thats funny. YOU may pay that, but your average countrymen do not.
 Revenues calculated on an exchange rate basis:
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph-T/eco_bud_rev_cap

THe average tax payer in France pays $16568.

The average tax payer in USA pays $6296.

Offline straffo

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« Reply #17 on: November 05, 2005, 03:59:23 PM »
I don't know how is done the computation ,btw I would be happy to pay 16000$ :D

Actually it's about 4000€ direct taxes plus an unknown amount of indirect (VAT) for a 75000€ income

Offline ghi

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« Reply #18 on: November 05, 2005, 04:29:30 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Gunslinger
45 million huh?  For some strange reason that number doesn't quite sound right.  Either way we wouln't be the "richest country in the world" if we provided everyone with health care.  I'd rather those people got jobs that offered them affordable health care and keep the govt out of it all together.

 
 I think i read in "USA today', few monts ago about those #s, 40 or 45 milions, i may be wrong
  I'll bet 24 cold "Blue Labatt", that your goverment is going to go on same sistem like in Canada, or something inbetween
 It work in most of the Europe and here, i know you are right, you have better quality services
   We have the option here to buy private health insurance,  soo no need to relay on slow goverment services  only,
  Soo what choices is going to have your gov.? let milions uncovered ? Let GM, Ford and many other colapse under health care costs?
« Last Edit: November 05, 2005, 04:32:00 PM by ghi »

Offline Ripsnort

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« Reply #19 on: November 05, 2005, 04:48:18 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by straffo
I don't know how is done the computation

Quote
Originally posted by Ripsnort
 Revenues calculated on an exchange rate basis:

Offline bj229r

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« Reply #20 on: November 05, 2005, 04:52:52 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by ghi
Over 45 000 000 americans without health insurance makes your health care sistem bad, unafordable for poors, nonacceptable in the richest country in the world,
It's sad to see all the discoverys and progress in health care, but are for rich only that can aford it, to live longer

I live in Canada, we have it "free", but we pay more taxes,and the services are worst , my brother been waiting 2 weeks for a kidney scan, non emergency ,
  But i still think the Canadian way is better,


Btw, wife was chatting with a friend on a Hodgkins bbs site--girl lives in Sasketchewan (ok, like YOU can spell that!) She desperately needs a PTscan done (this is the ONLY way to search the entire body at once for ANY tumors--Hodgkins tends to put them all over) the nearest machine is in Ontario, and the wait is 2 months+, and it is her understanding that she will have to wait even longer due to where she lives. I live in maybe the 10th largest city of a small state, and WE have one--wait was 1 week .:aok
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Offline Gunslinger

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« Reply #21 on: November 05, 2005, 04:57:09 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by ghi
I think i read in "USA today', few monts ago about those #s, 40 or 45 milions, i may be wrong
  I'll bet 24 cold "Blue Labatt", that your goverment is going to go on same sistem like in Canada, or something inbetween
 It work in most of the Europe and here, i know you are right, you have better quality services
   We have the option here to buy private health insurance,  soo no need to relay on slow goverment services  only,
  Soo what choices is going to have your gov.? let milions uncovered ? Let GM, Ford and many other colapse under health care costs?


yes by all means let the coorporations do it.  Them along witht he private sector can manage healthcare so much more efficiently than the federal govt.  I'm not heartless when I say don't cover these people.  They will get care if they go to a hospital in most cases but people shouldn't be dependent on govt for something like this.  There's allways the oppertunity to makes ones life better.

Offline Delirium

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« Reply #22 on: November 05, 2005, 05:53:53 PM »
edit: deleted post... not worth my headaches later nor the future lack of job security.
Delirium
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Offline Shaky

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« Reply #23 on: November 05, 2005, 09:06:31 PM »
Not a major emergency, but still....

Tooth pain, put it off for 4 days, finally called my dentist. Got an appointment the next day.

In that day....had the dental appointment, DDS referred me to a endodontist, drove there and went right in, endodontist said unfortunately there was no way to save the cracked tooth, refferred me to an oral surgeon for extraction, again, drove right there and was in the chair in 15 minutes.

3 medical offices in 3 hours with only one days notice for the first DDS appointment. Even got a follow up call from the oral surgeon later that evening.  Total out of pocket, none as yet, probably about $30 for the visits, but may be nothing.
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Offline lasersailor184

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« Reply #24 on: November 05, 2005, 09:33:42 PM »
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I'll bet 24 cold "Blue Labatt", that your goverment is going to go on same sistem like in Canada, or something inbetween


I'd take that bet the moment you wager real bear.
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Offline Torque

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« Reply #25 on: November 06, 2005, 10:57:24 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Ripsnort

And, your glorious health care system is a dismal failure



50 years ago just before it was nationalized both countries had pretty much the same health care, the same life expectancy and infant mortality rates. now canadians live two to three years longer than americans and the infant mortality rate is lower as well.

the system is antiquated to handle the baby boomers, open buffet season is over. it needs some fundamental changes and user and abuser accountablitiy.

bus loads of seniors on weekend drug junkets, medical expenses a leading cause of personal bankruptcy...glorious.

Offline Sandman

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« Reply #26 on: November 06, 2005, 12:14:28 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Ripsnort
Ouch! How did you cope?


It's easy. You just have to forget that you spent any money at all on medical insurance.
sand

Offline Silat

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« Reply #27 on: November 06, 2005, 11:42:42 PM »
November 7, 2005
Op-Ed Columnist
Pride, Prejudice, Insurance
By PAUL KRUGMAN

General Motors is reducing retirees' medical benefits. Delphi has declared
bankruptcy, and will probably reduce workers' benefits as well as their
wages. An internal Wal-Mart memo describes plans to cut health costs by
hiring temporary workers, who aren't entitled to health insurance, and
screening out employees likely to have high medical bills.

These aren't isolated anecdotes. Employment-based health insurance is the
only serious source of coverage for Americans too young to receive Medicare
and insufficiently destitute to receive Medicaid, but it's an institution in
decline. Between 2000 and 2004 the number of Americans under 65 rose by 10
million. Yet the number of nonelderly Americans covered by employment-based
insurance fell by 4.9 million.

The funny thing is that the solution - national health insurance, available
to everyone - is obvious. But to see the obvious we'll have to overcome
pride - the unwarranted belief that America has nothing to learn from other
countries - and prejudice - the equally unwarranted belief, driven by
ideology, that private insurance is more efficient than public insurance.

Let's start with the fact that America's health care system spends more, for
worse results, than that of any other advanced country.

In 2002 the United States spent $5,267 per person on health care. Canada
spent $2,931; Germany spent $2,817; Britain spent only $2,160. Yet the
United States has lower life expectancy and higher infant mortality than any
of these countries.

But don't people in other countries sometimes find it hard to get medical
treatment? Yes, sometimes - but so do Americans. No, Virginia, many
Americans can't count on ready access to high-quality medical care.

The journal Health Affairs recently published the results of a survey of the
medical experience of "sicker adults" in six countries, including Canada,
Britain, Germany and the United States. The responses don't support claims
about superior service from the U.S. system. It's true that Americans
generally have shorter waits for elective surgery than Canadians or Britons,
although German waits are even shorter. But Americans do worse by some
important measures: we find it harder than citizens of other advanced
countries to see a doctor when we need one, and our system is more, not
less, rife with medical errors.

Above all, Americans are far more likely than others to forgo treatment
because they can't afford it. Forty percent of the Americans surveyed failed
to fill a prescription because of cost. A third were deterred by cost from
seeing a doctor when sick or from getting recommended tests or follow-up.

Why does American medicine cost so much yet achieve so little? Unlike other
advanced countries, we treat access to health care as a privilege rather
than a right. And this attitude turns out to be inefficient as well as
cruel.

The U.S. system is much more bureaucratic, with much higher administrative
costs, than those of other countries, because private insurers and other
players work hard at trying not to pay for medical care. And our fragmented
system is unable to bargain with drug companies and other suppliers for
lower prices.

Taiwan, which moved 10 years ago from a U.S.-style system to a
Canadian-style single-payer system, offers an object lesson in the economic
advantages of universal coverage. In 1995 less than 60 percent of Taiwan's
residents had health insurance; by 2001 the number was 97 percent. Yet
according to a careful study published in Health Affairs two years ago, this
huge expansion in coverage came virtually free: it led to little if any
increase in overall health care spending beyond normal growth due to rising
population and incomes.

Before you dismiss Taiwan as a faraway place of which we know nothing,
remember Chile-mania: just a few months ago, during the Bush
administration's failed attempt to privatize Social Security, commentators
across the country - independent thinkers all, I'm sure - joined in a chorus
of ill-informed praise for Chile's private retirement accounts. (It turns
out that Chile's system has a lot of problems.) Taiwan has more people and a
much bigger economy than Chile, and its experience is a lot more relevant to
America's real problems.

The economic and moral case for health care reform in America, reform that
would make us less different from other advanced countries, is overwhelming.
One of these days we'll realize that our semiprivatized system isn't just
unfair, it's far less efficient than a straightforward system of guaranteed
health insurance.
+Silat
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"All that serves labor serves the nation. All that harms labor is treason."

Offline Delirium

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« Reply #28 on: November 06, 2005, 11:52:23 PM »
Obtain an article written by a moderate and I'll read it... I don't trust anyone that has clear one sided opinion.

What I erased from my post earlier was the lack of oversight in State run and Federal government financed facilities, it leads to poor quality of care, and a lack of reporting as they only have a single group to report to (the State) whereas a private facility has to report to their internal insurance company, the State (which almost always leads to a inspection), and often the patient's insurance company.

With our current situation, national health will end up neglecting alot of people... I've seen it, but unfortunately, I cannot post examples.
Delirium
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I found an air leak in my inflatable sheep and plugged the hole! Honest!

Offline NUKE

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« Reply #29 on: November 06, 2005, 11:54:18 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Sandman
It's easy. You just have to forget that you spent any money at all on medical insurance.


as opposed to spending all the same money and more on taxes for "free", substandard medical care in which everyone flocks to the healthcare "system" for every sneaze and caugh in order to get their god given right to "free" healthcare.