November 10th, 1975

[Mustaine]

Originally posted by Tarmac
The rogue wave theory doesn't hold up very well because it's not likely she broke at the surface.  The two pieces are very close to each other, and their orientation suggests that she plowed into the mud with the stern still sticking up and snapped when she buckled.  

It is possible that they were what drove her under though.

i think you may be thinking about the way the titanic broke at the surface, and the miles of sinking to seperate the two parts.

if the bow did get driven down, what drove it? the screws would be in the air even withe the bow on the bottom of the lake.

i think it had to break in 1/2 on the surface, at least part way. if that happened, the middle of the boat would go down first, pulled by the release of the hold. when the ship gave in and fully snapped it is easy to see the bow slapping down onto the bottom, and with the screws probably still partially moving, the stern twisting as it sank and hit the bottom.

in fact, if it went down middle first, the stern may have had a large pocket of air holding it up for a moment or two, to further disorient it from the bow.

[lasersailor184]

   quote:Originally posted by midnight Target
    How much would that weigh???



uh lessee here maybe about 52,000,000 lbs or 23636363 kilos or 26,000 tons.

MT wins for the day.

[Tarmac]

There's lots of published stuff on the Fitzgerald, and pretty much all of it says that she broke underwater when her bow hit.  

Originally it was thought that it broke at the surface, but when they found the wreckage it was pretty conclusive that it hadn't.  The USCG report said it took on water due to faulty hatch covers, while the NTSB's report says it was damage to the hatch covers, while the Lake Carrier's Association report found it was due to scraping bottom at the shoals.  No official source maintains that it broke at the surface.  

I'm no naval architect, but it seems reasonable that with a changing CG due to pellet and water shifting, coupled with a couple fatefully positioned waves could easily drive a ship underwater.  Once it goes under it woudn't come back up fully if at all, especially if the hatches were damaged.

[AWMac]

Fate plays often strange games.  I seen this post this morning and was VERY hesitant to reply. I am very proud that you all respect the Fitz. She was a great ore bearing boat.

I grew up in Toledo Ohio as my Father did.  He was young and did a stint in the Navy during the Korean War and got out of the service.  My Father was a Machinist Mate in the Navy. After he got out and back to Toledo he had held jobs for Libby Glass working medial jobs on the night shift which was slowlky killin him.  

I was born in '58... Dad finally quit Libbey Glass and got a spot as an Oiler on the Fitz. I remember being so poor in the early '60's that we had Thanksgiving dinner in the Fitz in '64 and '65.  Dad stayed on until '67 and with wife ack from my Mom rejoined the Navy.

I seen my Dad cry the hardest in '75 when the Fitzie went down.. I didn't understand it then but with age I know a part of hin went down also. He knew many of the crew.

Years ago when Gordon Lightfoot came out with that song it touched my Dads heart very much.

I would call him tonight and say I love you for going back into the Navy..but tomorrow is Veterans Day and I can roll it up all in one phone call.  Dad did 28 years in the Navy I did 20 in the Army..Army/Navy Game is BIG in our Family... But I know he will soon be gone. lost his right lung to cancer.

I'm 47 now and even when I was very young and thought my Dad was a total AHole it stuck in me... now as I'm older. I love him and will hate to lose him now.

Just a lil piece of Mac...

mac

[Maverick]

Mac, you can call twice you know. Cherish the time remaining, no one knows the time they have and we all end up wasting too much of it.

[AdmRose]

Fitzgerald cleared Superior, Wisconsin, on her last trip on November 9, 1975, with a cargo of 26,116 tons of taconite pellets consigned to Detroit. Traveling down Lake Superior in company with ARTHUR M. ANDERSON of the United States Steel Corporation's Great Lakes Fleet, she encountered heavy weather and in the early evening of November 10th, suddenly foundered approximately 17 miles from the entrance to Whitefish Bay (47º North Latitude, 85º 7' West Longitude)

Funny, it took Enron to sink Arthur Anderson

(sorry, couldn't resist)

[Masherbrum]

Originally posted by Maverick
Mac, you can call twice you know. Cherish the time remaining, no one knows the time they have and we all end up wasting too much of it.

Amen Mav.  When my Grandpa (USMC 43-46) had his operation for Colon Cancer in Feb, 1998, my Wife (then Fiance) and I visited him in the Hospital.  When we got there, we chatted for a couple minutes, he showed me his scar from the operation.  The nurse asked us to leave so they could bring a new patient in, I reluctanly agreed.  We went in 5-7 minutes later, he was sleeping "Let him sleep, he needs to rest" we both said to each other.  I never saw him conscious again, he fell into a Coma shortly afterward.   We married in Dec. 1998.

Mac, call twice.   If you need an excuse for a second call to him, tell him I thank him for serving the best damn country on the Earth.  

<>

Karaya

[Sixpence]

Well, one theory was the that the hatches that keep the water out were loose. They had clamps that held them down. These openings were quite large, they were opened to pour the ore in. Steel plates were put over these openings and clamped down. I believe the ship was scheduled to have some of these clamps replaced. As the waves beat on the ship, these clamps loosened and water entered. The pellets were pourous and absorbed alot of water, making the load much more heavy. As you know, in between each wave is a gap that dips down. As one wave traveled along the ship, another wave hit the ship. So you have a wave at the front of the ship, and a wave at the rear. In the middle of the ship is the dip between the waves. The middle of the ship being filled with ore and water was too much for the structure to handle, and split in two. It's like taking a 2x4, putting wooden horses at each end holding it up, and putting an elefant in the middle of the 2x4, it would snap in two.

It had a violent launch when it was finished being built, saw the film, it crashed into an adjacent dock. Some say it was cursed.

[oboe]

Mac, thanks for sharing that story.

[Legend]

My Dad sailed on the lakes for 15 years. He sailed on the EF for about a year in the early 70's. He knew quite a few of the crew that went down. Shortly after the sinking, he got out. He said he couldn't help thinking of those guys all the time and he didn't want to take the chance of his family losing him. He always got a real pale look on his face whenever he talked about it. Right up to the day he died. I could never imagine that feeling.

[AWMac]

Called my Dad. Great chat. Talked about the past. Talked about the Fitz and he grew quiet. Changed subject and went to more "Common Heart" things.  

I can say it's better each time we talk. I can honestly say that my Dad is a Best friend.  Alot in common but when yer young you think you know it all. I'll say the older I get I learn how much I don't know. \

He talked a lil about Nam, and I talked a lil of Panama, He talked of Korea and he knows I spent 11 years there. Finally we met face to face or ear to ear on the phone, and instead of Soldier and Sailor we became again Father and Son.  We talked of Deer hunting and Walleye fishin...Pop was great when I was a kid.  He'd have the day off and had to drive me to 1st Grade...Normally I walked... loaded up in the station wagon was a bunch of cane poles and his fishin rod and reel... we headed to my school.......if front of the school he asked me well do you want to go to school or go fishin...*he was good at times* Best remembered fishin day I hever had in my life and will be in memories.

It hurts to feel that times go by so fast and we have to learn about things so late.  At the end of the call we were both choked up, Sailor, Soldier, Father and Son.

Just another piece of Mac....

Mac

I think I'll call him again tomorrow.

[eskimo2]

It was a U-boat that did it; a number of them were never accounted for.

eskimo