iEN in tRouBLE

[Mayhem]

 

Originally posted by Torgo:
Anyone remember T.A.S.?

About 2-3 years ago..it was while I was in WB, I wasn't one of the people who signed up for the "Beta" that never happened for it.

Apparently the program never actually existed and it was a huge scam? I never got the whole story.

I remember all the people talking about those CK screenshots that came out every few months and how it was gonna "kill WB" when it came out next month..for about three years :-)

I remember somethink like this in 96 that scammed alot of Air warrior and Warbirds players. Think Doom lost a few thousand dollars investing into it.



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Mayhem 33rd S.G.
"Destination anywhere, so far gone, I'm already there!"

[Swager]

Believe it of not, we that fly AH need Warbirds 3.0 to be successful.

Competition is good!!  It will keep HTC on thier toes!!

 

[Citabria]

bingo swager  

[Ram1]

Guys:

Please read what 2.77 is. It has nothing to do with 3.0. At least you can get some of the published facts correct if nothing else. They can be read over on AGW so no point in posting them here.

2.77 is a good thing for WBs but a bit overdue, but since we don't have 3.0 just yet it is a necessary patch.

Don't understand all the hostility I keep reading here about WBs, kinda of a defensive reaction I guess. At least Swager and Citabria understand that it is a good thing to keep both Sims alive.

On the TAS thing, you did not have to pay to be a beta tester, you did need to sign a non-disclosure but that was it. The fact that some players decided to invest and then lost that investment is another issue. I doubt Paul "Voss" Hines wants to revist that mess. It became a very ugly scene on the Flight Sim BBS's and not worth reopening IMO.

Ram1


[This message has been edited by Ram1 (edited 01-08-2001).]

[Ripsnort]

Ram1, most that dislike Warbirds dislike the folks running it,not the community..please don't confuse the two.  Some have valid complaints, others simply vent frustration.  I continue to propagate Warbirds finer sides to potential sim pilots when I demo both Aces High and Warbirds since the only bad experience I've had with WB's is the connections and continuance of credit card payments after I had canceled my account, but those can be easily overlooked considering the years of enjoyment I had in return.

There is room for both sims, and WW2, as well as Olegs new sim coming up, I'd rather have a wide variety of choices rather than it be limited by a few, that can only mean a better product for the consumer.

[AKDejaVu]

 

Air Warrior redefined what a flight sim could be, it was the first.

I know air-warrior was the first.  That's why WB "re-defined".  Air-warrior gave you a taste of virtual combat.  WB gave you a taste of semi-realistic flight model virtual combat.  It took on-line play from being a game to being a simulation.

For that it deservers some respect.

As a side note... for anyone that believes that 2.77 is a gift from iEN, read the updates very carefully.  Is one of them a necessety?  I don't know... "14. Authorization Software (the death of the iLZ folks)".  Oh yea... since we are patching it.. why not fix a few bugs that we've known about for several months.  That is what is called "bad management".

AKDejaVu

[Bombjack]

iLZ is being deep-sixed now because the part of the business that drove its inclusion (the card games and so on) have been downgraded in importance internally.

As far as I can tell, the Warbirds team never liked the iLZ, and they're as eager as us to see the back of it now they're allowed to ditch it.

[Jimdandy]

The only other pay to play WWII flight sim I've ever been on was Air Warrior. I played it for three years under a couple different handles. I did AW on AOL, then Gamestorm for AW2 and 3. FR on all of them. I got very tired of the stagnant flight model. It looked like there was so much more potential for AW with all the planes they already had and a large community. They never really did anything with it. The flight model was basic in FR compared to AH. On top of that (in the time I was on there anyway) there was no discussion of taking the game in any new directions. It was the same old same old. So I left. I took me a few months of looking and I found AH and I really like it. I see these guys trying to add a variety of different avenues of play. We have planes, boats, and GV's and I only see them wanting to add more. That's what its all about. At the moment anyway, their not setting back fat, dumb, and happy with what they've done. The perk points thing is a good example of there efforts to try to keep a balanced gaming environment. It may not work as they planed it but damn it their out there doing something to try to please there customers. I get the impression that their listening to us and trying to way our requests against balancing the arena <S> to their efforts. I hope they never set back like AW and say "...and it was good."  

[leonid]

Don't know if this has been stated above, but before you start trashing WB, remember who made it.  Hitech.

[Voss]

 

Originally posted by Ram1:
Guys:

-snip-
On the TAS thing, you did not have to pay to be a beta tester, you did need to sign a non-disclosure but that was it. The fact that some players decided to invest and then lost that investment is another issue. I doubt Paul "Voss" Hines wants to revist that mess. It became a very ugly scene on the Flight Sim BBS's and not worth reopening IMO.

Ram1

Ram1, I always knew that was you!   <S>

I will respond to this ONCE and once only. The infamous DOOM was a real Napoleon type that attempted to push the production of TAS way too fast. I read where he claimed to have lost $73k in investments. B*llsh*t!

Doom supplied a refurbished system that was never up to the task. That machine died three times during the process of game creation. On top of that he paid a total of $300 in reimbursements. Ask any game creator out there what he could do with that!

I have never canvassed for supporters. I have never panned for money, either. I *may* actually produce a game, someday. I fully expect to be sued for it! No one ever forwarded any financial support of any kind (other then Doom's crap). I accepted no investments.

Two-thirds of the production team, and talent I have since trained in things like sound creation, modelling, textures, and the like, are currently working on other games for other companies. Many of the ideas that were discussed on the TAS BBS have since been incorporated into other games in violation of the non-disclosure agreement. I couldn't care less.

So, the imagined *injury* to the simming community is just that. Sims benefited from the BBS discussion. I have even seen some of those ideas in this game (AH). In HT's case, though, I believe it is a case of natural evolution. He's one smart cookie! In other cases, though, it is obvious that beta team members violated their NDA. No one seems too worried about that!

As to vaporware, DOOM's lawyer served us that we never release the game. Although I doubt he could make it stick, he attempted to forbid me to create flight sims altogether. My lawyer informed me that the title "Battle of Britain" would not be a good idea. So be it.

As to my character I don't care if you think I'm a horse thief! That aside, the only injury anyone suffered was disappointment.

So, if you weren't there, and even if you were, please refrain from commenting on things you have no knowledge of. For the past two years I have been hanging out with guys 'a cut above' this crap. Most of them know who the horses' *ss was. I think the rest of the guys on the BT were smoking crack! I have never heard so much scat in all my life! For a time, not a day went by that another extrapolation of BS came about from someone not 'in the know.' Give some guys a microphone...

It's interesting that the guys that have actually met me rallied around me throughout all of this. Hell, still fly with me and support every endeavor of mine.

I owe an apology to only two men. Both of them past squaddies. Jungo, and Toad. To both of them I am most humbly sorry. Please forgive me. It won't happen again.

I am finished here. I shall not respond to further rants, insults, or comments. I expect everything I wrote to be twisted and manipulated into more crap. Drop it!

"I'm a dot..."

Voss

[This message has been edited by Voss (edited 01-08-2001).]

[jedi]

Never mind.  If WB3 doesn't come out, it'll be obvious why it didn't.  If it does come out, I hope you like the taste of crow  

P.S. I think you may have some issues over here that might be a tad more important than the status of a WB patch...

[This message has been edited by jedi (edited 01-08-2001).]

[Mayhem]

My money will still be on Air Warrior IV. Provided EA lets them ditch that 14 year old code and Reality engine. I remember moggy making a point that there was still cobol in it.

Theres also WWII online but thats a "I will beleive it when I see it" game.

I hope they do get warbirds III out and I hope Warbirds stays alive even if Ien Goes tits up. Mabey they guys that mad mig alley and battle of britian will buy it ... beets EA or ::Shudder:: Microsnot.

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Mayhem 33rd S.G.
"Destination anywhere, so far gone, I'm already there!"

[lazs]

I hope WB thrives.   I left it because it had become the kind of gameplay that I had no interest in and because it was getting so long in the tooth with so many features that needed to be fixed and no hope of any fix anytime soon.   I didn't buy the "3.0" any day now" 6 months ago.   I claimed then that it wouldn't be out till "next year" (2001) and was slammed on the board for negative vibes and exageration...

Still... WB keeps a type of player happy that I have no interest in.   If it folds, those guys will come here and ask that AH be ruined too.  

Hving said that.... and having been around a while.... I will say that... Things change.  WB may change into something that tickles my fancy or AH into something that I can't stand.... In either case, it's best to have somewhere that poor ol harmless,fat, bald toothless lazs can go to.  
lazs

[AKDejaVu]

 

My money will still be on Air Warrior IV.

LOL! No bias there eh?

Every trial of AWx has resulted in a prompt uninstall of the game.  My main mistake was playing Warbirds before Air Warrior.  The truth is, AW went a slightly different route than WB.. and later AH.  They'd have to do a hell of a lot more than they've shown for the past 4 years to get me to put money on them.

AKDejaVu

[Mayhem]

 

Originally posted by AKDejaVu:
LOL! No bias there eh?

Every trial of AWx has resulted in a prompt uninstall of the game.  My main mistake was playing Warbirds before Air Warrior.  The truth is, AW went a slightly different route than WB.. and later AH.  They'd have to do a hell of a lot more than they've shown for the past 4 years to get me to put money on them.

AKDejaVu

Past 4? dude it's been the same game for 13 years, right down to the code. the bigest changes have been adding aircraft and light changes to the graohics engine. the bigest change from awdos to awMV was from aw4w to awII where the made light changes to the interface and some light changes to the graphics. they bitmap over the top of it for 3d and you have awIII. there have been no major changes to air warrior deep down in its guts it's the same as it was in 1987. They can't keep the game alive any longer they have to rebuild the game from the ground up.

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Mayhem 33rd S.G.
"Destination anywhere, so far gone, I'm already there!"