Author Topic: iEN in tRouBLE (Read 3360 times)

AKDejaVu · « **Reply #30 on:** January 08, 2001, 10:59:00 AM »

Quote

My money will still be on Air Warrior IV

Read what you said before.. read what you posted after that. You're going in circles.

If your money is on AW4.. what are you basing that bet on? Surely not on anything I've seen in the last 4 years. You claim the same has been happening for the last 13. So.. once again.. why would you make that bet?

No bias eh?

AKDejaVu

Mayhem · « **Reply #31 on:** January 08, 2001, 11:08:00 AM »

Guess your right Iam biased. I spent more time in air warrior then anyother game. I was a game op, I was a CM, and Ive done the Con thingy. I was there when AW4 and Jetwarrior where first mentioned. I'am hoping this time around the do what they say and start from the ground up. Just like I wount go back for AWMV (3.5) if AW4 doesn't step up then i wount be their either. Every thing else has been improvements on the same game. aw4 is suppose to be a brand new from the ground up game. My money sure as the hell wasn't on AWMV. But if I had to bet I would put my money on AW4 being "the game" to compete against AH Specially IF Warbirds III goes vaporwhare. WWII online has a good chance but I will beleive it when i see it.

------------------
Mayhem 33rd S.G.
"Destination anywhere, so far gone, I'm already there!"

[This message has been edited by Mayhem (edited 01-08-2001).]

Westy · « **Reply #32 on:** January 08, 2001, 11:23:00 AM »

Mayhem. I was there for tha talk aboutAW:V and also AW:4. And that's about all it amounts to right now. AW:V was scrapped by EA and there's not even talk about AW:4.

Waiting for AW-4 to come out (and hoping it will amount to anything more than being a FighterAce III) is the same as the poor sod who keeps muttering, "Just wait! My ship will come in...... some day."

And if it DOES come out, someday, one could only uselessly hope that they would offer it on something a bit more improved than the old defunct Gamestorm platform and it's inbred environment. For it could be the best thing since sliced bread, but at $10/mo and being DorkDudez heaven it won't pull in anyone but the Air Marshall Generalisimo Oldman Rags et al types.

I predict that due to the EA connection with AOL that AW-4 will be an Uber "RR" game choice right alongside Bop The Bunny and Where in the World Is Kelton.

-Westy

[This message has been edited by Westy (edited 01-08-2001).]

Yeager · « **Reply #33 on:** January 08, 2001, 12:40:00 PM »

WBs 2.77

Why hasnt 3.0 been released yet? Its been over two (2) freekin years!

I knew it would take some time for the new crew at iEN to ramp up but this is fediddleing rediculous.

I will say one thing jedi, cabby, striglr and other associated types: Your loyalty to iEN and the tired outdated v2.76 is farking amazing in view of the way they have treated you fellaz!

Good luck!
Yeager

Dos Equis · « **Reply #34 on:** January 08, 2001, 12:41:00 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Voss:

I am finished here. I shall not respond to further rants, insults, or comments. I expect everything I wrote to be twisted and manipulated into more crap. Drop it!

Voss

[This message has been edited by Voss (edited 01-08-2001).]

Well, from that rant, there's not much to twist.

Can I ask a few questions:

Can you name members of the production team that went on to work for other companies, and who those companies are?

Can you post a copy of the injunction that bars you from releasing the game? If not, at least a letter from DOOM's lawyer saying so?

I'm just curious if there's an ounce of truth in anything you posted or whether you make Derek Smart look like an amateur.

X2

Grendel · « **Reply #35 on:** January 08, 2001, 12:49:00 PM »

A word about iEN.

There was and most likely still is two kind of people regarding WarBirds:

- suits
- developers

The suits have no knowledge or understanding about WarBirds. You can easily understand that, they are the "big money" folks. In the eternal hunt of money they have neglected the development team and refused them resources and possibilities in making the old engine better, developing WB3 faster and serving the community. All this IMHO, to my understanding what I've read.

Now the latest turmoil in the iEN company has been rather horrible. The dot.com crash has left company vulnerable. Big problem now is that they're making too little money from the other sources of iEN and got too much staff, that WarBirds can right now support.

I'm sure most of you people flying AH would like the WB _developer_ team. Or most of them. They have some real dedicated people who want to make a great sim but who must also carry on supporting years old engine, and keep fixing bugs that the _old team's_ code still has. And please note, I have never ever seen any of the WB development team say a bad word about AH or Hitechcreations. Only praise.

I think that just for those fine people developing WB3 they deserve success. ANd Hitech Creations deserves success. WW2O just as well! We need competition and we need things to choose from.

I've seen many softer words lately in both the AH and WB boards about each other. Understanding, friendly talk. After all, we're all here for same thing: WW2 aviation. SOmeone drives Ford, other one Opel. It depends on driver what he likes. I don't fly AH, I've tried it many times and saw it was not for me but hey, that is my choise and I have nothing against those who decide otherwise.

So let's have a group hug and wish everybody well?

------------------
VLeLv Icebreakers
Überfinns Perkele
http://www.compart.fi/icebreakers

Moose11 · « **Reply #36 on:** January 08, 2001, 12:51:00 PM »

Well, actually, I hate to butt my head in here, but I've followed this thread from the moment I woke up this morning.

After seeing the various accusations against Voss, I was curious to see what he'd say in response. Up until his reply, I felt much the same as everyone else seemed to (well, there was only one side to the story, was there not?) and now that he has said his part, I'm back to being neutral. Truthfully I don't know much about TAS, not many others might either, so I'm not a professional on the subject.. but....

Voss' reply was professional, well thought out, and most definitely not a rant. Dos whoever you are, I don't think I'm the first to note that you and a few others seem to instigate more and more as time goes on. Makes you wish there was a squelch on this board.

Dos Equis · « **Reply #37 on:** January 08, 2001, 01:09:00 PM »

To follow up on a side subject:

I think Cornered Rat has done a good job with the films they have shown us, of seeing what the game will be like. If anything, they suffer from a bit of over-exuberance.

I think that perception comes from so many years working with HTC, who are positively stoic about hype.

I think CR will deliver WW2OL in some form, perhaps a very basic form, with a few tanks, a couple planes, and an infantryman model. The trick then will be to not let the doors wide open and get flooded. Esp. with hacks.
I'm sure they have that in mind.

All they've set out to do is completely model World War Two down to an infantryman level all the way up to at least a Company Level. In 3D. In Real time. Planes, ships, subs, landing craft, what have you. It will make Everquest's world look like the back of a postage stamp.

I wish them luck, I would like to something, ANYTHING, that does combined arms tactics like that. But I also got into this hobby for the planes. And planes is what AH does best.

X2

J_A_B · « **Reply #38 on:** January 08, 2001, 01:15:00 PM »

Westy is forgetting one point about the people who play AW--

Yes, there are a lot of idiots there. That can be said about ANY online MMP flight sim--or ANY online game at all for that matter. Trashtalk is a way of life on the Internet (sadly).

For a perspective on how good the flightsim community really is, try unreal Tournament or Counterstrike sometime. MUCH worse.

A LOT of AW's players are there because of the price. 25 or 30 bucks a month is a lot more than many people can or will pay to play a game--especially one which has similar overall gameplay (though admittedly better). There are actually quite FEW "lame doodz" in AW; at 21 years old I consistently find myself being among the younger players online. I have yet to see someone younger than 17 online consistently. Indeed, the people with the greatest capacity for rudeness in AW--or any flightsim--are all older. I have no problem with younger players; more players (and targets) is always a good thing. Just thing of how good AH could be with 3 times as many people--they would have multiple arenas, doubtlessly more scenarios, more terrains, and possibly faster development (HTC could afford to hire some help).

AH is a vastly superior game to AW. I do not dispute this. However, I for one simply cannot afford AH. And believe me, a LOT of people are in AW are there for the same reason--it is the best value for the money when every dollar counts.

I know why AH and WB's charge what they do, but their (comparitively) high price is also what gives AW a niche in the market.

As for AW4....If it is ever made, I think it will be an excellent game, since it would have the newest engine. Of course, I do not expect to see AW4 for a year or more, at the bare minimum--if ever. Work has not even begun on it yet.

OTOH, I can see why Westy's perspective is different than mine. Sometimes witchhunts happen.

J_A_B

Westy · « **Reply #39 on:** January 08, 2001, 01:39:00 PM »

Witch hunt? Not sure what you mean so I'll try and cover the bases. I still like most of he folks I was friends with back in AWville.Oddly the only ones I do not are Gameops or employees of EA/KEsmai. I'm still in contact with quite a few of these friends well over a year after I left. And the scenario side-play of "Westy Must Die" was all in fun and there was no malicious intent behind it on anyones part. I don;t even dislike AW. I feel sorry for it, being as stagnant and as obsolete as it is. But I do resent and have (or rather 'did') alot of ill feelings towards Kesmai/Gemstorm for the complete lack of progress on AW. Aw3 is 1988 AW with a nice wrapp on it. Mostly my problem was the really pathetic direction they were bringing AW and the demographics they were persuing... "RR" and the McDonalds crowd. Never mind their horrendous PR methods. What PR?

I know there are alot of good folks who do not fly here because it is not thier kind of fun (harder and AH has SOME flight managment), a number have PC's that can't handle it or they cannot afford or justify $30/mo. But these folks are the extreme minority of the subsciber base at Gamestorm/EA. As for not seeing many "dUdEs" in AW3, well you must fly FR and not RR (where the vast majoprity of the numbers are). FR had the older folks in it. RR had the idjits. (btw, how are the FR numbers these days? honestly curious)
However I dislike FA and The Zone very much for the very same reasons. But at least FA is evolving where as AW is not. And has not for three years when all we got was 3D with old bugs and all. Minor tweaks and a few major, long over due bug fixes are not evolution.

I dont hate AW. I left for a number of reasons the least of all was due to the age of the program itself.

-Westy

[This message has been edited by Westy (edited 01-08-2001).]

Dos Equis · « **Reply #40 on:** January 08, 2001, 01:51:00 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Moose11:
Well, actually, I hate to butt my head in here, but I've followed this thread from the moment I woke up this morning.

Voss' reply was professional, well thought out, and most definitely not a rant. Dos whoever you are, I don't think I'm the first to note that you and a few others seem to instigate more and more as time goes on. Makes you wish there was a squelch on this board.

Write the developers of the UBB and ask for one.

So far since I've starting posting, I've called RAM on the carpet for bashing HT publically. I'm sick of whiners.

I also was part of the discussion on Usenet surrounding TAS. I saw outrageous things come out of it. I saw doctored photos, claims of Ph.Ds, real Derek Smart stuff. Somebody mentioned TAS here. Read up this thread. I'm not the one who posted one of the doctored photos. I didn't claim I was ripped off from a for-pay beta. I just want to know the truth. Is there any harm in the truth?

If you see, all I asked for was Voss to come in and clarify the history. He starts in with DOOM, and the legal fallout and all the developers who he trained and how there *is* an injunction against him forbiding the game from seeing the light of day. All I want to see is some proof.

I think you'll find the rest of my posts have been reasonable, nothing out of the sort. Squelch me in AH if you like. I almost never talk on ch 1 anyhow, so I wouldn't sweat it too much.

X2

Ripsnort · « **Reply #41 on:** January 08, 2001, 02:10:00 PM »

X2, most here probably don't remember Voss or the TAS fiasco or even knew of it. It's probably good, as Voss may want to "start all over again" in regards to community acceptance. I'm sure he learned his lessons.

<S> To Voss and you, X2.

Torgo · « **Reply #42 on:** January 08, 2001, 02:11:00 PM »

I don't see anyone in this thread saying "I can't wait till WB goes under!" or anything; just a few people pointing out some of WBs problems. That's not wishing them to go under..I guess people are so touchy/fearful about WB that anyone brining up anything that isn't glowingly positive about it is sitting around waiting to gloat over their doom.

Man, I had NO idea that Hinds was in AH or reading these boards :-) I was just mentioning offhand a long-lost scandal that I didn't feel I had the full story on.

The considered opinion of numerous respectable people who I've had contact with was that TAS was, in fact, a total sham. The truly amazing thing about it was just how effective it was at maintaining doubt in people's minds that it might NOT have been a sham for so long.

[This message has been edited by Torgo (edited 01-08-2001).]

Dos Equis · « **Reply #43 on:** January 08, 2001, 02:16:00 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Ripsnort:
X2, most here probably don't remember Voss or the TAS fiasco or even knew of it. It's probably good, as Voss may want to "start all over again" in regards to community acceptance. I'm sure he learned his lessons.

<S> To Voss and you, X2.

Ok. I won't push it. Torgo sums it up anyhow.
We'll let the Hands of Fate take care of it...

X2

Ram1 · « **Reply #44 on:** January 08, 2001, 02:29:00 PM »

Yeah Voss its me. Can I get my confidentiality paperwork back now?

X2, just so there is no confusion, this is Ram1 from Warbirds, not RAM from AH who you guys are so fond of. Not sure which RAM you were referring to in your message.

Yeager, if you want to know why many of us are still flying Warbirds contact me privately and I will gladly supply you with details from my perspective. Its not loyalty to IEn as much as a bunch of other issues which are starting to surface in AH from what I can tell.

Ram1
31st Fighter Group
CO 309th Fighter Squad
Historical Arena CM
Warbirds Trainer
Formerly 901st Immortals (The best virtual squadron that ever flew