It is curious how he leaves this out....

[DREDIOCK]

Originally posted by J_A_B
[B the fact that the leaders of certain industries think (often accurately) that the Bush government will allow them to do whatever they want.  
J_A_B [/B]

Just as Clinton let certain industries do whatever they wanted which resulted in a runaway economy largely based on illusion.

What goes up, must come down, and the farther up it goes the harder it drops. Hence our last recession

[Debonair]

BF109 was a much better fighter aircraft than the Spitfire

[AWMac]

Dam and I was just thinking that if someone said the magical "Liberal" word then Nash would come racing through the door with lots of nothing to say.  But then again he is so Worldly wise on American Politics, Policy and World Perception.

Ladies and Gentlemen, without further adou Let us welcome kindly into this thread Gash...errr Nash.

This should make good a few hours of Nashs spewling froth of nonsense.

"Take it away Nash!"



Mac

[oboe]

I think its safe to say that any good happening during the Clinton Administration was the direct result of Reagan's policies, and the bad that occurred is due to him being a liberal commie lying POS.    For GW, its the reverse - anything bad that happens is directly the fault of Clinton, and any good is due solely to Bush's honest leadership and wise policies.

The world really is just that simple, and you will NEVER, EVER get me to change my mind.   Now if you'll excuse me, the 700 Club is about to start.

[Jackal1]

The world of politics has very little do do with politics anymore.
Even in the campaigns we used to actualy hear the stances that each candidate took on various issues and that was the focus.
  Now it just boils down to who can dig up the most horse dung on the other and wooo the press enough to help with the flinging.
  Some just seem to know when to hit the showers, while others like Billary just stand around with their fly open babbling.

[storch]

Originally posted by Thrawn
What is the current velocity of evil?

significantly faster here than in Canada I would guess.

[lazs2]

yeager... if he was indeed raping all the children there then that would not be an ATF tax matter now would it?

I think that it could be said that he had sex with at least one 14 year old girlk there... it was not rape except in a statuatory manner tho and... permission was granted by the parents.   the girl had also made claims against other men in other circustances too.  

I bet he may have had sex with some of the underage women there with the knowing consent of their parents tho.   That is bad... it of course, is not reason enough to kill all of the kids to save em tho.  

The head of child services in the area had visited several times and claimed that all the davidian children were happy and well adjusted and brighter than most kids their age...

Till the ATF burned em allive that is.

lazs

[oboe]

What again was the ATF's motivation for burning the children alive?  And how did they accomplish it?

[Shamus]

Originally posted by oboe
I think its safe to say that any good happening during the Clinton Administration was the direct result of Reagan's policies, and the bad that occurred is due to him being a liberal commie lying POS.    For GW, its the reverse - anything bad that happens is directly the fault of Clinton, and any good is due solely to Bush's honest leadership and wise policies.

The world really is just that simple, and you will NEVER, EVER get me to change my mind.   Now if you'll excuse me, the 700 Club is about to start.

shamus

[WhiteHawk]

Originally posted by lazs2
I really despise the way he sluffs off the brutal chokeing and burning alive of 80 U.S. citizens including 26 small innocent children whose sole crime was that they may not have paid a few bucks tax on some firearms they owned... or not...

He sluffs it off by saying "we should have waited them out"   Outrageous.  Truly adds impact to the tax code... "pay or die"

 tax men in ninja uniforms with machine guns killing citizens to collect unpaid er... maybe unpaid... TAX..

lazs

 
  You mean they werent gun hoarding-religous fanatics that threaten all of our safety and freedom????  Wow, the mainstream media sure dropped the ball on this one.

[lazs2]

oboe... the motive was to get more funding to support the growing of their agency.. it seemed like a good idea at the time... the democrats were in power and the davidians could be painted as a right wing christian group..

Also... the ATF had blundered into lots of bad situations in the past due to their incompetence... to the point that Reagan had tried to disband them... other agencies felt that the ATF were buffoons...

News media were called...  It should have been an easy stormtrooper ninja operation and then all the crazy davidians would be shown loaded into paddy wagons and all their "machine guns" and evil looking ordinance  could be displayed for the camera with smiling ATF crews standing behind the tons of WMD's

That was of course a fantasy... it was shattered by the davidians taking badly to being shot at by ninjas and fighting back...  the ATF got their butts kicked by citizens with hunting rifles and they had to beg to gather their dead and wounded and run away when they ran out of ammo....

This did not sit too well with em and so... being the incompetent and immature idiots that they were...  they chased the press away and tried to salvage their wounded pride..

The FBI came in and was "gonna show those yahoos at ATF" but it was too late... they also let their pride get in the way and..

Pride and power allways trump innocent lives in the world of the alphabet soup ninjas.

If you would like to see what happened... an academy award nominated documentary "Waco, the rules of engagement" is out there for you to see..

Again.. If you can't get it... I will lend you my copy.

lazs

[lazs2]

whitehawk... they were religious fanatics by my defenition... The local sheriff did not find em to be dangerous... he visited many times... tho... not in ninja garb and preceeded by shooting all their dogs and firing at the house and people that came to the door.

The were indeed "hording guns"... although... they probly averaged less guns per capita than their neighbors.... as a neighbor said "this is Texas after all"

There was a slight chance that they weren't current on some firearms taxes... so... the taxmen came...

They (the ATF) were offered days before to come in and search the place for illegal weapons but the ATF new this was a trick to make em look foolish so they called all the media and did the raid instead.

Randy weaver at ruby ridge got his family killed because he may have owed the tax men the $5 fee on having the wood on a shotgun 1/8" too short.

lazs

[oboe]

Laz,

Thanks - but I want you to tell me exactly the procedure used by the ATF to incinerate the children.   I can't recall specifics, though I thought the press said that the Davidians themselves set their compound on fire to avoid capture.

Is that an incorrect account?

[lazs2]

no it is not.   Or at least... probly not.. the davidians were trapped and choking to death from days of being gassed... their power was out and they had been surviving on colman fuel and gas... they couldn't get out because snipers were shooting at anyone who tried to get out...  the negotiator at one point told em that anyone coming out would be shot.

they did pour fuel around the perimiter of one of the walls thinking to light it and escape through the flames... they never got a chance... there was a huge explosion and flash fire caused buy the mixture of cs gas in the air being ignited..  Possibly mistakes were made on both sides but every bit of the fault of escalation of the situation was allways the government.  the fire that started was more of an explosion like that at a grainery where dust is susspended and then ignited... incenerary rounds were used by the government... that much is admitted.

I really think that you should see the documentary rather than have me pick and choose parts from it... sufice it to say that it is apparent to everyone that the ATF and FBI were caught in lies every time they opened their mouth.   If they will lie like that...

Who are we to believe when some other citizen says.. "that isn't the gun they took from me... " as he is being given a 10 year sentance for not paying a $300 tax?

lazs

[Bodhi]

Originally posted by oboe
Laz,

Thanks - but I want you to tell me exactly the procedure used by the ATF to incinerate the children.   I can't recall specifics, though I thought the press said that the Davidians themselves set their compound on fire to avoid capture.

Is that an incorrect account?

The way I remeber was the tanks that the ATF used to ram through the compound ruptured a propane tank setting off a fire that went bonkers in minutes, and trapped and killed most of them in an underground bus bunker.