Spit question

[Elyeh]

Is the Spit 9 an upgrade from the Spit 8? Or was the Spit 8 Superior to the 9?

Also, how come the spit 9 no longer has .50 cals and bomb load?

Thanks

[1K3]

spit 9 is a stop gap plane.  Its airframe is based on spit 5 with mrlin 61 engine

spit 8 is a whole new plane.  spit 8 is like spit 14 with just a merlin 66 egine

[Kev367th]

Spit 8 is a strange story.

The 1942 F IX with the Merlin 61 was originally a stop-gap temporary mark to counter the FW-190's that had appeared. As you know the early ones were Mk V airframes with the Merlin 61 fitted, thats how 'rushed' it was.
During this time the VIII was in development and was supposed to replace the IX eventually.

So we have the strange situation where the Mk IX actually came before the Mk VIII, the IX was that successful it became the largest produced Spit Mk (5000+) in its various guises of LF, F , and HF after the Mk V (6000+).

The Spit IX as modelled in AH2 is a 1942 model, and therefore had no .50 cal or ord options, so it is correct.

[Guppy35]

Spit VIII was the most refined of the Merlin Spitfires.  Retractable tail wheel, tropicalized from the start.  Leading edge fuel tanks to increase range, short span ailerons, taller broad chord rudder.  It was the peak of Merlin Spit development.  That being said, getting Merlin 60s Spits into action became a higher priority with the introduction of the 190.  This meant the 9 got their first because it was basically a Spitfire Vc with a Merlin 60 series engine.

Many of the refinements of the VIII ended up in the IX and XVI eventually.

Because it was the better of the two, the VIII ended up designated for overseas service so the RAAF got it as well as RAF and USAAF units in the MTO and CBI.

[Karnak]

The Spit VIII was intended to be the definitive Merlin Spit.  The Mk IX (and by extension the Mk XVI) was a stopgap to hold the line against the Fw190 until the refined Mk VIII was in production.  In the actual event the Mk VIII was never produced in the numbers of the IX, but it dod go on to be the basis of the stopgap Griffon powered Mk XIV.  The Mk XIV was intended to hold the line until the definitive Griffon Spit 21 was in production and, just as with the stopgap IX, the XIV was produced in far larger numbers than the 21.


As to the .50 cals, they should never have been on the Merlin 61 F.Mk IX in the first place.  The Spitfire Mk IX we had prior to v2.06 was a Frankenstein that never existed.  The Merlin 61 powered Spitfire Mk IX had a universal wing, which in practice meant two 20mm cannon and four .303 MGs.  Only later on the Merlin 66 Spitfire LF.Mk IXe and Merlin 70 Spitfire HF.Mk IXe did the .50 cal show up.  The Spitfire LF.Mk IXe is identical to the Spitfire LF.Mk XVIe that we also got in v2.06.

[Karnak]

Hehe.  I think we got it covered.  

[Elyeh]

Thanks for the info:aok

[Pooface]

dan, what was the gain from tropicalising planes??? it surely just added more drag. did they have a larger air filter or something?

[Angus]

The early filters really added drag, while the later ones like on the Mk VIII didn't do so significally.
Basically, AFAIK the trop filters were not even needed in the North African theatre, - but it was the rules. They were needed in the Pacific where the RAF operated however.
Not sure how the US coped with it, but there were some troubles due to sand and coral dust at least.

[Kurfürst]

Originally posted by Pooface
dan, what was the gain from tropicalising planes??? it surely just added more drag. did they have a larger air filter or something?

Well if you don't filter out the sand and dust from the air before it gets into the supercharger and the engine, it won't exactly prolong engine life. It was absolutely neccasary.

[Angus]

From Anthony Bartley's diaries (sqn leader 111 RAF) positioned in Gibraltar OTW to Algiers, November 10th 1942.
"The fuselages and wings had been crated seperatly, and assembled at the point of departure. with ill conceived tropical air/sand filters which were completely uneccecary in North Africa, and detracted considerably from performance which we were to discover to our substantial cost"

By the way those guys flew from Gibraltar to Algiers as an escort of Hudsons, which by opportunity attacked a Submarine on the way. It was a three hour flight or so.

[Crumpp]

Did the allied tropical filters continue to fliter the air for the duration of the flight?  I mean besides that huge intake cowl they hung on the Spitfire.

The German ones were only used on take off and landing.  After that the filter opened and no longer restricted airflow to the engine.

All the best,

Crumpp

[Angus]

Really don't know. The only thing I do know is that there was a vast difference between the early generation filters abd the late ones.
A little to ad in the Med, - the air up high down there is actually colder than in N-Europe. Don't know why though. Maybe the clear sky all the time?

[Guppy35]

Regarding the filters.  The Spit IX originally did not have the tropical filter.  Here is an image from Spit historian Peter Arnold, of MH434 a surviving Spitfire, and the one our AH Spit IX is skinned as.  Note it does not have the tropical filter, has the Universal wing with the 2 20mm and 4 303 and the ability to carry the drop tank.  It doesn't have wing hard points etc.  The IX got the tropical filter in 44 mainly because of the dust and dirt from the airfields in Normandy and on the continent.  The dust and dirt choked the engines without the filter.  MH434 now flies with the tropical filter and did so in it's postwar career with various air forces.

If you were going to be real picky, our AH Spit FIX that's marked like MH434 shouldn't have the tropical filter, which it in fact has in the game.



This is the 44-45 Spit LFXVIe.  Note it's a clipped wing bird, with tropical filter, tall tail, wing hardpoints for rockets or bombs and E wing with the 2 20mm and 2 .5 mgs.  This is the same tropical filter that was introduced on the VIII.  It didn't really detract from performance at all, unlike the large filter that was used on the first tropical Spit Vs in the MTO and Pac.

[Guppy35]

Another view of an early IX with no tropical filter.  This is from a book published in 43 so this is clearly one of the very early IXs.