Author Topic: New Spitfire Comparison (Read 5760 times)

Badboy · « **on:** November 13, 2005, 03:47:17 PM »

Guys,

I’ve been comparing the new Spitfire variants, and because I spend a fair amount of time in the DA, my first interest was in finding out how they stacked up to the Mk V since that has been the firm favourite for duelling.

After doing some quick checks, I knew the VIII was a strong contender, so I produced an EM diagram for it, then confirmed it in the DA, the Spitfire VIII is now the ultimate dogfight variant.

First the EM diagrams:

Here you can see that the new SpitV still has a slight edge in instantaneous turn rate, which means that in a one circle fight (which is how all duels begin) the Mk V has a very small edge, but the Mk VIII has a sustained turn rate advantage that is decisive…

Here is how the one circle fight stacks up:

Notice that the Spit V can still get the first shot on the second merge, because it has a slightly smaller turn radius, but if you stay out of the bandits plane of motion slightly, and spoil the shot, the Ps advantage will win the fight eventually.

Here is the two circle fight:

You can see the very small turn radius advantage, but the sustained turn rate advantage should dominate, and I’ve been able to confirm that fairly consistently in the DA.

Last but not least, the VIII has a 1500ft/min climb rate advantage, and a 33mph top speed advantage, dropping to 21mph without war emergency power. Not to mention the reduction in the SpitV’s ammo load… Basically, the SpitV is dead, long live the SpitVIII.

At least nobody can say that our teaching isn’t being informed by the latest research

Badboy

Schatzi · « **Reply #1 on:** November 13, 2005, 04:01:59 PM »

Thanks for the info BadBoy. Very interesting.

I still dont like the MkVIII much. I guess im biased. I just *love* the MkV.

Gianlupo · « **Reply #2 on:** November 14, 2005, 07:05:42 AM »

Didn't you love the Hurricane?

Thanks for the info, Badboy, nice work as always!

Schatzi · « **Reply #3 on:** November 14, 2005, 07:38:15 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Gianlupo
Didn't you love the Hurricane?

That thing between me and the Hurri1 is more than mere Love, Gian.....

Dead Man Flying · « **Reply #4 on:** November 14, 2005, 07:51:20 AM »

The Spit VIII is great. It wobbles around a little bit more than the old Spit V did when slow, but it honestly feels very familiar. I'd be curious to see how it stacks up against the Spit IX as well.

-- Todd/Leviathn

Krusty · « **Reply #5 on:** November 14, 2005, 08:22:06 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Schatzi
That thing between me and the Hurri1 is more than mere Love, Gian.....

Is it lust? Because I'm pretty sure it's lust.

Gianlupo · « **Reply #6 on:** November 14, 2005, 08:46:57 AM »

Ah, it surely must be!

Schatzi · « **Reply #7 on:** November 14, 2005, 08:54:13 AM »

Stop it guys

.

Take it to the FM forum... this is Help & Training!

Gianlupo · « **Reply #8 on:** November 14, 2005, 08:59:39 AM »

Ooops! You're right! You know, old habits die hard!

So, let's go back on topic... Badboy, can we have EM diagrams for all the other Spits?

Krusty · « **Reply #9 on:** November 14, 2005, 10:51:10 AM »

I'd like to see spit9 vs spit8... Folks are saying the 8 is the new killer, it's the best, turns best, etc etc, but from memory it's basically a LFIX with more gas.

Guppy35 · « **Reply #10 on:** November 14, 2005, 11:44:05 AM »

Spit XVI baby! But then again I've got this thing for clipped wing Spits

Spit VIII should be the ultimate Merlin Spit.

bozon · « **Reply #11 on:** November 14, 2005, 11:50:59 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Krusty
I'd like to see spit9 vs spit8... Folks are saying the 8 is the new killer, it's the best, turns best, etc etc, but from memory it's basically a LFIX with more gas.

not our IX and VIII. The IX is the early model with weaker engine. Our VIII out climb, out run and out accelerate it. The roll rate seem to be a little better on the IX though. Perhaps it's due to the redesigned ailerons, Guppy/Dan should probably know.

Bozon

Pooface · « **Reply #12 on:** November 14, 2005, 01:16:05 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Krusty
I'd like to see spit9 vs spit8... Folks are saying the 8 is the new killer, it's the best, turns best, etc etc, but from memory it's basically a LFIX with more gas.

spit8 is a different plane. the 9 was basically a mk5 airframe with a merlin 61, while the spit 8, (which was released after the 9, due to the fact that the 9 was the name given to adapted spit5's) has a completely redesigned airframe, longer body, poited tail, and many refinments like retractable tail wheel. it was the ultimate in merlin spitfire design. fitted with very powerful merlin 66.

Schutt · « **Reply #13 on:** November 14, 2005, 01:24:59 PM »

You have that diagram for the 16 too?

Guppy35 · « **Reply #14 on:** November 14, 2005, 02:14:39 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Pooface
spit8 is a different plane. the 9 was basically a mk5 airframe with a merlin 61, while the spit 8, (which was released after the 9, due to the fact that the 9 was the name given to adapted spit5's) has a completely redesigned airframe, longer body, poited tail, and many refinments like retractable tail wheel. it was the ultimate in merlin spitfire design. fitted with very powerful merlin 66.

Just to clarify, the early Spit IX was basically a lash up between the Spitfire Vc and the Merlin 61. As Spit IX production went on, many of the refinements of the VIII were included so a 44-45 Spit IX would be much more complete then the 42 Spit IX that was hurried into production.

Take a 1945 Spitfire LFIX and a 1945 Spitfire VIII and the main differences would be the retractable tail of the VIII and the short span ailerons that basically just added some stiffness to the aileron. I haven't seen anything to suggest they improved performance much if at all. And there wouild be the extra fuel in th wings which gave it greater range.

The VIII was destined for overseas use from the start, which was why it was tropicalized, had the extra fuel in the leading edge wing tanks etc.

Ultimately it came down to production and in some ways it was easier and faster to get the Spit IX out there.

Dimensions for a standard LFIX and LFVIII would be the same. The VIII did not have a longer body or redesigned fuselage. The tail section incorperated the retractable wheel, but that's seperate from the fuselage section.

Being a Spit XII fanatic I've had to deal with the first 50 XIIs in the EN serial range that were built on Spitfire Vc contracts and the last 50 in the MB range that were built on Spitfire VIII contracts. Only diff between the first and last is the retractable tail wheel and even that doesn't work as if the tail was replaced it might be a non retractable version as was done with MB794 that has the fixed tail.

Image of a flight of 41 Squadron XIIs with MB794 being the only fixed tail wheel showing and the others also MB serialed with the retractable tail. All built on VIII contracts.