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Author Topic: I know it's a dumb ? but...  (Read 700 times)

Offline WMLute

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I know it's a dumb ? but...
« on: November 15, 2005, 02:16:39 PM »
Was watchin' a special on the p51 on the mil. chan. and a guy came on and made the following statment.

"the germans had adopted LONG RANGE armament at this point in the war, and with their 20 and 30mm cannons, could shoot at the American bombers from long range.  The American bombers were helpless as their .50cal machineguns were not effective at those ranges."

Was this guy just dumb?  SOUNDED to me he was saying the 109's and 190's 20/30mm's cannons allowed them to shoot and down buffs from long distance, distances where the .50 cal could not reach.

Where, oh were do they get these "experts" for these shows?
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Offline Golfer

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I know it's a dumb ? but...
« Reply #1 on: November 15, 2005, 02:19:59 PM »
The same place that had the folks tell them that the P-38 Lightning was America's premier jet fighter in WWII.
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Offline Schatzi

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I know it's a dumb ? but...
« Reply #2 on: November 15, 2005, 02:24:07 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Golfer
The same place that had the folks tell them that the P-38 Lightning was America's premier jet fighter in WWII.



LMAO, maybe we can get the Jet version one day. Perked of course.... should be a fun plane to fly!
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Offline Balsy

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« Reply #3 on: November 15, 2005, 02:33:57 PM »
the military channel constantly shows the wrong aircraft while explaning another one, mis-states the # of guns/cannons, etc....

Just take everything they say with a grain of salt.. after all they have to fill up 24hours a day of programming for junkies like us to soak up.

Balsy:aok
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Offline SKJohn

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« Reply #4 on: November 15, 2005, 02:44:48 PM »
That may have been the same show where the "expert" stated that the P-51 was feared by the Germans because of it's six 50 MILLIMETER machine guns!  I'd settle for one 50 mm machine gun!
Let's see......50 CAL = about 12 mm........so 50mm would be about a  200 caliber, right?  I'm afraid that the 6 X 50 MM P-51 would have to be perked!:D
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Offline *NDM*JohnnyX

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« Reply #5 on: November 15, 2005, 03:29:15 PM »
It would only fly at 150mph, and climb 100ft an hour, but God help whatever was dumb enough to get in front of it.
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Offline hubsonfire

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« Reply #6 on: November 15, 2005, 04:17:50 PM »
The recoil from the 6 50mm guns sometimes caused planes to travel backwards in time. (btw, 2.54cm/inch IIRC, so yeah, damn near 2" shells. WOO WOOOO, let's go vulching!)
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Offline AutoPilot

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I know it's a dumb ? but...
« Reply #7 on: November 15, 2005, 04:31:55 PM »
Quote
I'd settle for one 50 mm machine gun!


The 262 had an optional 50mm,the barrel is about 6-7 feet long.
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Offline SkyRock

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« Reply #8 on: November 15, 2005, 04:44:45 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by AutoPilot
The 262 had an optional 50mm,the barrel is about 6-7 feet long.

I believe that was their secret "Johan Sabastian Holmes" version of the 262!:D
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Offline nirvana

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I know it's a dumb ? but...
« Reply #9 on: November 15, 2005, 05:05:58 PM »
He was dumb, the 50 cals had the distance advantage because they were shooting with the airstream, the fighters were shooting into it.  Well that really didn't make sense, think of it as a bomber gun shooting then flying away from the bomber while the fighter is shooting and trying to catch up with the bomber.  Know what i'm saying?  I'm having a hard time putting it into words.
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Offline lasersailor184

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« Reply #10 on: November 15, 2005, 06:50:47 PM »
Not too radical of a statement if you think about it.


The damage a .50 caliber gun does is based off of velocity.  The further out the shot is taken, the less damage the .50 does.


The Damage of a 20mm gun (the majority) is based off of connecting.  It is connecting with an airplane that explodes the shell.  While speed might help, it is not necessary.
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Offline Delirium

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« Reply #11 on: November 15, 2005, 07:16:34 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by nirvana
He was dumb, the 50 cals had the distance advantage because they were shooting with the airstream, the fighters were shooting into it


Wind resistance isn't as much a factor as the speed of the aircraft... a FW190 diving on a buff's 6 doing 400 adds his speed to the muzzle velocity giving him a slight advantage vs the b17s which are subtracting their speed from their muzzle velocity.

Speaking of wind resistance, I have read where F-86 pilots would fire much farther out at high alt because the air was thinner, which could also help the historic FW in the same situation.
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Offline lasersailor184

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« Reply #12 on: November 15, 2005, 07:35:34 PM »
You might want to rethink that.

The .50's a Buff is firing at a 190 gain in power the faster the 190 is moving at the buff just as much as the 190 gains from the other way around.
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Offline AutoPilot

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« Reply #13 on: November 15, 2005, 10:52:38 PM »
Quote
The .50's a Buff is firing at a 190 gain in power the faster the 190 is moving at the buff just as much as the 190 gains from the other way around.


Kinda like the faster the Pitcher throws the ball the faster it's goin out of the park theory.
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Offline DREDIOCK

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« Reply #14 on: November 15, 2005, 11:49:36 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Balsy
the military channel constantly shows the wrong aircraft while explaning another one, mis-states the # of guns/cannons, etc....

Just take everything they say with a grain of salt.. after all they have to fill up 24hours a day of programming for junkies like us to soak up.

Balsy:aok


LMAO you got that right.

I remember wtching a show on the P51 and they kept talking about the P51D over and over again.

Cool.

The only problem was is while they were saying P51D they were showing the P51B
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