Author Topic: Children's Cartoon trains Suicide Bombers  (Read 1368 times)

Offline Seagoon

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Children's Cartoon trains Suicide Bombers
« Reply #15 on: November 16, 2005, 11:52:11 AM »
Hi all,

Sometimes its difficult to know where to begin in responding to posts that view every worldview as equally valid and coherent, so that an 80s Hollywood fantasy about American Partisans fighting against a Soviet takeover of the USA or a raunchy post-modern cartoon series designed to offend every imaginable group (other than College Students) are cited as justification for a cartoon designed to encourage Muslim children to become suicide bombers.

This program is just one of many broadcast every week on Iranian TV specifically  intended to recruit young Muslim men and women, boys and girls for the Jihad. Most of these programs are aimed at Israel specifically, but many target America and Europe. They are produced with the ok not only of Iran's government, but the seal of approval of her Mullahs.

If the American government produced a cartoon series ok'd by religious leaders encouraging American teens to join terrorist organizations and participate in suicide attacks based on faith, the entire world would go balistic and the US Government would topple in a matter of days. However, when the Iranians (and other ME governments) broadcast them on a daily basis, we all shrug our shoulders and yawn. "It's all relative" we say, or worse "Well, [insert America or Israel here] deserves it for what they've done/are doing/will do."

It reminds me of an article in the late Steve Vincent's Redzone blog (the author, a journalist, was shot by Shi'ites in Basra) about how one Iraqi female translator for the US military became disgusted that Americans could no longer appreciate that some worldviews were actually better than others, here is part of the interaction the translator "Layla" had with an Air Force Captain:

Quote
"Collecting himself, "But should we really get involved in choosing one political group over another?" the Captain countered. "I mean, I've always believed that we shouldn't project American values onto other cultures--that we should let them be. Who is to say we are right and they are wrong?"

And there it was, the familiar Cultural-Values-Are-Relative argument, surprising though it was to hear it from a military man. But that, too, I realized, was part of American Naiveté: the belief, evidently filtering down from ivy-league academia to Main Street, U.S.A., that our values are no better (and usually worse) than those of foreign nations; that we have no right to judge "the Other;" and that imposing our way of life on the world is the sure path to the bleak morality of Empire (cue the Darth Vader theme).

But Layla would have none of it. "No, believe me!" she exclaimed, sitting forward on her stool. "These religious parties are wrong! Look at them, their corruption, their incompetence, their stupidity! Look at the way they treat women! How can you say you cannot judge them? Why shouldn't your apply your own cultural values?"

It was a moment I wish every muddle-headed college kid and Western-civilization-hating leftist could have witnessed: an Air Force Captain quoting chapter and verse from the new American Gospel of Multiculturalism, only to have a flesh and blood representative of "the Other" declare that he was incorrect, that discriminations and judgment between cultures are possible--necessary--especially when it comes to the absolutely unacceptable way Middle Eastern Arabs treat women. And though Layla would not have pushed the point this far, I couldn't resist. "You know, Captain," I said, "sometimes American values are just--better."


Steve Vincent and his translator got it, but apparently the idea that teaching young children to blow up Jews and Christians is simply evil is too much for the jaded palates of self-loathing westerners.

- SEAGOON
SEAGOON aka Pastor Andy Webb
"We have no government armed with power capable of contending with human passions unbridled by morality and religion... Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." - John Adams

Offline Seagoon

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Children's Cartoon trains Suicide Bombers
« Reply #16 on: November 16, 2005, 11:59:33 AM »
Nashwan,

Perhaps you can watch the cartoon and explain how that cartoon shown on Iranian TV was not actually encouraging children to engage in suicide operations or depicting the Israelis as bloodthirsty murderers. And how it was good and wholesome fare for kiddies. I await your reinterpretation of the material.

While we're at it. My word, wasn't that "Triumph of the Will" stuff in the 30's inspiring? Yessiree solid German family values programming there. Too bad it was all taken out of context by Frank Capra and his vicious propagandists in that awful "Why we Fight" series.

Color me disgusted.
SEAGOON aka Pastor Andy Webb
"We have no government armed with power capable of contending with human passions unbridled by morality and religion... Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." - John Adams

Offline Staga

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Children's Cartoon trains Suicide Bombers
« Reply #17 on: November 16, 2005, 12:02:47 PM »
So Seagoon; are you saying that flick isn't produced (or "selectively" translated) by ex-members of Israeli intelligence service and neo-cons and is most likely made and "altered" for propaganda use?

Or short: Do you trust the translation was accurate?

Because if you do I have few bridges I could sell to you :)

Offline Seagoon

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Children's Cartoon trains Suicide Bombers
« Reply #18 on: November 16, 2005, 12:20:45 PM »
Hi Staga,

Quote
Originally posted by Staga
So Seagoon; are you saying that flick isn't produced (or "selectively" translated) by ex-members of Israeli intelligence service and neo-cons and is most likely made and "altered" for propaganda use?

Or short: Do you trust the translation was accurate?

Because if you do I have few bridges I could sell to you :)


Respectfully, try to reign in the left-wing conspiracy theory thing for a moment.

Memri has been accused of "tweaking" translations of Arab Media, to date they have never been accused - even in Arab papers - of PRODUCING material and claiming it was made by Arabs. That would be discovered and exposed in a heartbeat and that would be the end of MEMRI. Western media and governments would no longer be allowed to carry any of their materials. Even the NPOV dispute on MEMRI at Wiki (  Click here for the Wiki Article on MEMRI  ) doesn't advance that claim.

The cartoon in question was produced in Iran, carries the Iranian TV logo, and is similar to other production I've seen on Arabic websites. In fact, its not even as bad as some of the music videos I've seen. If you want, go ahead and put a strip of tape over the translations and watch it again. The message is essentially the same even without the translations.

Engaging in a kill the messenger argument over MEMRI doesn't change the substance of the Iranian cartoon. It does however indicate why the West is rapidly losing this particular war.
SEAGOON aka Pastor Andy Webb
"We have no government armed with power capable of contending with human passions unbridled by morality and religion... Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." - John Adams

Offline Boroda

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Children's Cartoon trains Suicide Bombers
« Reply #19 on: November 16, 2005, 12:40:18 PM »
Funny. IRIB sattelite TV broadcasts in Farsi and English as well. Why subtitles then?

Can anyone tell is it in Farsi or Arabian language?

I think we should kindly ask Babek to comment on this film.

Offline Yeager

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Children's Cartoon trains Suicide Bombers
« Reply #20 on: November 16, 2005, 01:22:54 PM »
What was the guys name that George C Scott played in Dr Strangelove?

"I say we skip parts three and four and just launch the danged missles now".

The result will be the same and everyone will feel good.
"If someone flips you the bird and you don't know it, does it still count?" - SLIMpkns

Offline Seagoon

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Children's Cartoon trains Suicide Bombers
« Reply #21 on: November 16, 2005, 01:34:12 PM »
Ok Sorry guys, my mistake.

Here is what I should have posted:

"Hateful organizations like MEMRI continue to make it seem like the peace-loving non-religious Iranian government is bent on destroying Israel and encouraging middle eastern youths to take part in martyrdom operations. Nothing could be further from the truth, for as the President of Iran, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad,  said in widely reported remarks at the recent World Without Zionism conference:

"The creation of the occupying regime in Jerusalem is a strong action by the ruling arrogant world order against the world of Islam. ... The Islamic nation will not allow its historic enemy to exist in its heartland" Ahmadinejad then went on to inspire the conference attendees to visions of peace by pointing out that the current wave martyrdom attacks would certainly wipe Israel off the map.

Which in the authoritative New Living Left Retranslated Interpretation meant, "We are a peaceful nation that respects the right of all people to live in peace and does not desire to advance a religious agenda by means of violence. We certainly aren't the kind of people who would produce cartoons, music videos, and TV programs calling on youths to commit murder in the name of Islam. Islam, not that we are pushing Islam mind you, probably means Peace, after all. As the prophet AlRodni Abu King has said "Can't we all just get along?" "
« Last Edit: November 16, 2005, 01:36:37 PM by Seagoon »
SEAGOON aka Pastor Andy Webb
"We have no government armed with power capable of contending with human passions unbridled by morality and religion... Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." - John Adams

Offline Holden McGroin

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Children's Cartoon trains Suicide Bombers
« Reply #22 on: November 16, 2005, 01:42:16 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Boroda
Funny. IRIB sattelite TV broadcasts in Farsi and English as well. Why subtitles then?


I speak very good English! Why the condescending subtitles?
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Offline GtoRA2

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Children's Cartoon trains Suicide Bombers
« Reply #23 on: November 16, 2005, 01:48:49 PM »
WoW...


So you Euros who find excuses for this crap, does sticking your head in the sand ever get old?


You can watch that without reading the subtitles and tell exactly what it is about.

Even if this Memri org does mess with the translation, I really doubt they would need to for **** like this.


Comparing this to Red dawm and south park is just silly.

I could just see some of you jokers in the 30s...

"Oh that Hitler, he is just misunderstood, and those evil jews, they really overcharge in their stores so those yellow stars of david are just to let the poor germans know they could get ripped off! You see any loose dirt around here for my head?"





:rolleyes:

Offline Boroda

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Children's Cartoon trains Suicide Bombers
« Reply #24 on: November 16, 2005, 02:08:19 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Holden McGroin
I speak very good English! Why the condescending subtitles?


I don't see any reason for adding artificial subtitles to a clip from a channel that broadcasts in plain English, as well as in Farsi. I mean - with English soundtrack.

Again - can anyone find Babek and ask him for comments? He knows it better then anyone of us.

Offline Redwing

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Children's Cartoon trains Suicide Bombers
« Reply #25 on: November 16, 2005, 02:15:38 PM »
like you'd need any subtitles to understand what this clip is all about... i'm probably a bad "euro" for thinking that this thing is just disgusting

oh well

Offline Nilsen

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Children's Cartoon trains Suicide Bombers
« Reply #26 on: November 16, 2005, 02:20:07 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by AKS\/\/ulfe
Sesame Street taught kids how to become junkies.

Snuffalustudmuffinus and Cookie Monster weren't examples of people living a clean life.

And Bert and Ernie... shortly thereafter coming out of the closet became popular.
-SW


:rofl

Offline Nilsen

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« Reply #27 on: November 16, 2005, 02:25:11 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by GtoRA2
WoW...


So you Euros who find excuses for this crap, does sticking your head in the sand ever get old?:rolleyes:


What "euros" does what now?

Offline midnight Target

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Children's Cartoon trains Suicide Bombers
« Reply #28 on: November 16, 2005, 03:05:05 PM »
I think it is only fair to ask what we know for sure.

1. It is a disgusting cartoon.
2. It is translated by a known apologist

Anything else? Does anyone here watch Iranian TV? Could this come from an independent source? Could this be something Iranians hate yet allow as their version of free speech? Could it be a parody? Could it be something that is showing how stupid suicide can be?

I bet No One here can answer those questions, but you go right ahead and be disgusted... that is your right.

Offline icemaw

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« Reply #29 on: November 16, 2005, 03:05:39 PM »
Did anyone read the transcripts of the tv shows on family matters. :O

Makes me shudder to think what this world would be like if they ran things.
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