Author Topic: Children's Cartoon trains Suicide Bombers (Read 1383 times)

Seagoon · « **Reply #30 on:** November 16, 2005, 04:05:44 PM »

Hi Midnight,

Quote

Originally posted by midnight Target
I think it is only fair to ask what we know for sure.

1. It is a disgusting cartoon.
2. It is translated by a known apologist

Anything else? Does anyone here watch Iranian TV? Could this come from an independent source? Could this be something Iranians hate yet allow as their version of free speech? Could it be a parody? Could it be something that is showing how stupid suicide can be?

I bet No One here can answer those questions, but you go right ahead and be disgusted... that is your right.

Let's be reasonable.

There is not, nor will there ever be an Iranian parody of martyr operations on the Irib channels. We are talking about a state were it is illegal to show a woman's ankles on the Television and where blasphemy against Allah or Muhammad is a death penalty offence. Showing a young martyr jumping and saying "Allahu Akbar" and intending it to be a parody, would never have been allowed.

The Islamic world takes this kind of thing very, very, seriously. I know we have great difficulty understanding that because we live in a society where nothing is revered or sacred any longer, but Iran is a society where an action like burning pages from the Quran could get you executed and where Adulterers are stoned to death and homosexuals are hanged. Irreverence simply isn't a legal option and there is NO such thing as "free speech" as you understand it in the Islamic Republic of Iran. This is the reality of life under Sharia law.

The IRIB channels are state run, there is no such thing as an "Independent Production" that doesn't tow the party line there. Matt and Trey would have been hung long ago.

Ripsnort · « **Reply #31 on:** November 16, 2005, 04:12:18 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by midnight Target
I think it is only fair to ask what we know for sure.

1. It is a disgusting cartoon.
2. It is translated by a known apologist

Anything else? Does anyone here watch Iranian TV? Could this come from an independent source? Could this be something Iranians hate yet allow as their version of free speech? Could it be a parody? Could it be something that is showing how stupid suicide can be?

I bet No One here can answer those questions, but you go right ahead and be disgusted... that is your right.

Maverick · « **Reply #32 on:** November 16, 2005, 04:43:01 PM »

Does anyone have any substantiation that the translations are not correct?

Can anyone provide independently derived confirmation that Memri (or whoever) falsified the "cartoon or translation"?

Do we have independent analysis that memri is not objective (or at least no more than the people who put the cartoon together)?

So far in reading the thread I see alegations of falsification of translations, out right fabrication of the cartoon but nothing to substantiate the allegation. An allegation is not proof or evidence of anything. If you have something to substantiate it please provide it, and that goes for either side of this argument. FWIW the "translation" certainly seems to follow the graphical plot line. I'm not sure what esle could be added to it to change it to a different meaning

As to the Red Dawn comparison. IIRC there were some rather successful ambushes shown in that film. This cartoon shows how some one with a perfect situation for an ambush can screw it up and end up losing it. I'd rate it as a pretty lame "training" film.

Sandman · « **Reply #33 on:** November 16, 2005, 04:46:53 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Holden McGroin
I speak very good English! Why the condescending subtitles?

She sells sea shells by the sea shore!

Wolfala · « **Reply #34 on:** November 16, 2005, 05:16:09 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Boroda
I don't see any reason for adding artificial subtitles to a clip from a channel that broadcasts in plain English, as well as in Farsi. I mean - with English soundtrack.

Again - can anyone find Babek and ask him for comments? He knows it better then anyone of us.

It was from a funny video of an interview of a bunch of insurgents. 1 guy had subtitles and the other guy did not, but both of them had the same accent. Anyway, back to the flame war. ****ed up video.

Staga · « **Reply #35 on:** November 16, 2005, 05:26:26 PM »

Anyone seen any good Rambo movies lately?

Same **** but different package. "We are good and they are bad; kill them and glory will be ours".

Only idiots wouldn't understand that.

Nashwan · « **Reply #36 on:** November 16, 2005, 05:47:52 PM »

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Does anyone have any substantiation that the translations are not correct?

No. The translations probably are pretty accurate.

Quote

Can anyone provide independently derived confirmation that Memri (or whoever) falsified the "cartoon or translation"?

Falsified, I doubt it.

Quote

Do we have independent analysis that memri is not objective (or at least no more than the people who put the cartoon together)?

I think it's fair to say Memri are about as objective as Iranian state TV

Quote

So far in reading the thread I see alegations of falsification of translations, out right fabrication of the cartoon but nothing to substantiate the allegation. An allegation is not proof or evidence of anything. If you have something to substantiate it please provide it, and that goes for either side of this argument. FWIW the "translation" certainly seems to follow the graphical plot line. I'm not sure what esle could be added to it to change it to a different meaning

Well, the plot of the cartoon is Israeli soldier kills family, boy swears vengance, boy participates in attack on Israeli military convoy, boy carries out a suicide attack on convoy.

The ending shows all the attackers and Israeli soldiers dead, with one surviving boy who walks off into the sunset. With no celebration or victory signs, it's actually close to a traditional anti-war film. Especially as the main target, the evil Israeli officer, isn't seen being killed, and his body isn't one of those shown after the battle (as far as I can see)

What we don't get with Memri is context, and we don't see any scenes they might have edited out.

What I'd really like to see for comparison is an Arab version of Memri, where they paint the West and Israel as evil based on translations of Pat Robertson, Ovaida Yosef, Jean Marie le Pen, etc. Throw in bits of Hollywood films (Black Hawk Down would be a good place to start) and you'd end up with a convincing portrayal of a west that hates anyone who isn't a white Christian,or Jew and hell bent on killing as many Muslims as possible.

It wouldn't be accurate, of course, but you can achieve a lot by presenting only one side of a story (when the other side isn't around to present their side)

Ripsnort · « **Reply #37 on:** November 16, 2005, 05:51:51 PM »

^^I find it hilarious (and scarey at the same time) at the lengths people will go to justify their obtuse views on fundamentalist muslim religions.

rpm · « **Reply #38 on:** November 16, 2005, 06:01:17 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Yeager
What was the guys name that George C Scott played in Dr Strangelove?

Buck Turgidson

Nashwan · « **Reply #39 on:** November 16, 2005, 06:18:09 PM »

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I find it hilarious (and scarey at the same time) at the lengths people will go to justify their obtuse views on fundamentalist muslim religions

Have you seen any of the propaganda videos showing suicide bombing? You know the sort, where they video the fool from a safe distance, and keep chanting Allahu Akbar when the explosion goes off?

They glorify violence.

Watch this again. The suicide bomber shouts "Allahu Akbar", then he dies, then everyone else is shown dead. There's no Allahu Akbar narration, no final Allahu Akbar message, no victory (it focuses mainly on all the terrorists being dead, and the villain of the piece is not shown dead). There's no scences of the "martyr" going to heaven, just a shot of his body, with blood coming from the mouth.

The tone of this wasn't the same as a propaganda piece. And I'm willing to bet if any of the missing scenes showed more of a propaganda style, Memri wouldn't have edited them out.

GRUNHERZ · « **Reply #40 on:** November 16, 2005, 08:10:36 PM »

The amount of deep reflection and searching for justification in this video by ty the leftists is amazing.

Yes it was all just a joke, its the irianian version of Saturday Night Live and the producers rights to irreverant free speech about allah are guarnteed in the 1st amendemt of Irans consititution - Iran is really just like a western liberal democracy like the ones i europe, canada and the usa so this type of programming is common and popular. In fact the free and creativeIranian state media has other great regular saturday morning cartoons where Mohammed is portrayed as a homosexual chinese jew in order to demostrate the futility of islam to all young childeren so they experience a diverse view of religion.

You guys are hillarious.

Holy crap, Nashwan even compared this to a hollywood anti war film... That's as an amazing amout of stupidy as I have ever seen on these boards...

I hope that you ride the london subway a lot Nashwan and get a chance to witness one of your heroic islamic anti war activists in action first person....

WOW!

midnight Target · « **Reply #41 on:** November 16, 2005, 08:34:38 PM »

OK I watched it.. couldn't from work.

It is obviously not a parody. However is is also pretty different than the "suicide bomber" cartoon I was expecting.

1. The "suicide" was a personal decision
2. The attack was obviously against soldiers.
3. No one encouraged the suicide.

The level of hatred and propaganda aimed at the Jews was outrageous. The heros in the cartoon were Palistinian I assume?

GRUNHERZ · « **Reply #42 on:** November 16, 2005, 08:41:26 PM »

The video itself encourages suicide bombing attacks - thats the whole point, MT.

SOB · « **Reply #43 on:** November 16, 2005, 08:46:43 PM »

Let me just be the first to declare that this video is bad. Also, I hate serial killers and I don't have anything at all to say to brain cancer.

NUKE · « **Reply #44 on:** November 16, 2005, 08:52:58 PM »

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Originally posted by SOB
Let me just be the first to declare that this video is bad.

Don't flatter yourself.