Children's Cartoon trains Suicide Bombers

[Seagoon]

Hi MT,

Originally posted by midnight Target
OK I watched it.. couldn't from work.

It is obviously not a parody. However is is also pretty different than the "suicide bomber" cartoon I was expecting.

1. The "suicide" was a personal decision
2. The attack was obviously against soldiers.
3. No one encouraged the suicide.

The level of hatred and propaganda aimed at the Jews was outrageous. The heros in the cartoon were Palistinian I assume?

Actually, regarding your points 1 & 3 a female teacher on another board made the following observations which I thought were quite insightful:

"One of the things that I found so repulsive about the cartoon was that the leaders of the resistance didn't ask the boy to be a suicide bomber. They, in fact, tried to discourage the boys from fighting. The boy then decided to be a suicide bomber on his own. This is important in children's books. The solutions to the problems are to come from children, not adults. The reason is that the readers can relate to the child character and believe the story when the child finds his own solution. If the adults had made the boy be a suicide bomber then the children might have felt sorry for the boy. Instead the boy did what he did of his own free will and he died a glorious death."

In the end as the teacher went on to observe, we have the powerful image of the youngest boy taking up the mantle, the message: the next generation will carry on the fight, and the next, and the next, and the next, until some day the enemy are all dead or sick of resisting. We are stronger, Allah is with us, and none of us are cowards young or old.

Now, one of the things you may have missed was that this is the classic Shia martyrdom message, not Sunni and that makes a big difference. You see Ali, the prophet's cousin and husband of his daughter Fatima, was himself murdered in the succession struggles following the death of Muhammed, and his followers were almost wiped out. The Shia (short for Shiat Ali or "party of Ali")  have been permanent underdogs in Islam since then and collectively they glory in the idea of continuing on faithfully fighting and resisting in spite of defeat. This message also resonates with the Palestinians. In Iraq amongst the Sunnis, the message is one of, "they may be ahead now, but we'll be victorious soon, you'll see. Just one more martyrdom attack and their back will be broken...." In a sense, historically the Shia fight to continue a struggle that can never end, while the Sunnis fight to regain their hegemony. In fact, until the 20th century, suicide attacks were far more common amongst the Shia than the Sunnis.

- SEAGOON

[AWMac]

Repeating over and over again...gets old fast.

Wish this thread was.

Mac

Isn't there enough Hate in the World that we have to bring it all into a BBS like ours?

Pffft...

[Thrawn]

Originally posted by Seagoon
"One of the things that I found so repulsive about the cartoon was that the leaders of the resistance didn't ask the boy to be a suicide bomber. They, in fact, tried to discourage the boys from fighting. The boy then decided to be a suicide bomber on his own. This is important in children's books. The solutions to the problems are to come from children, not adults. The reason is that the readers can relate to the child character and believe the story when the child finds his own solution. If the adults had made the boy be a suicide bomber then the children might have felt sorry for the boy. Instead the boy did what he did of his own free will and he died a glorious death."

I found that very insightful.

The Shia (short for Shiat Ali or "party of Ali")  have been permanent underdogs in Islam since then and collectively they glory in the idea of continuing on faithfully fighting and resisting in spite of defeat.

Underdogs compared to the Sunnis?  Maybe in the past, but they got Iran, Saudi, have of Iraq what else?

In Iraq amongst the Sunnis, the message is one of, "they may be ahead now, but we'll be victorious soon, you'll see. Just one more martyrdom attack and their back will be broken...."

I'm not sure if Iraqi Sunnis would believe that.  Remember, during the Iran/Iraq war the Iraqis got to see tens of thousands (hundreds of thousands?) of Iranian Shia kill themselves in almost fruitless human wave attacks.

In fact, until the 20th century, suicide attacks were far more common amongst the Shia than the Sunnis.

And that has changed?  Isn't Al-Quaeda made up of Shia?

[Hangtime]

The Shia (short for Shiat Ali or "party of Ali") have been permanent underdogs in Islam since then and collectively they glory in the idea of continuing on faithfully fighting and resisting in spite of defeat.

[/b]

Didn't Boston win a World Series?

Then Chicago?

Scary Shia....

[GRUNHERZ]

Thrawn,

Saudi Arabia is Sunni, very very very Sunni.  The vast majority of muslims are sunni. Shia are rather few. And Nashwan is a true idiot.

[babek-]

I cant open the link to the video - so I cant tell you if it is in Farsi or not.

But about this "ShiŽites and underdogs" - thing some infos:

When the arabs conquered the Middle East they assimilated the conquered people. These people gave up their history before, their language, religion and so on and became arabs by adopting the culture of the invaders.

People from Egypt or Syria had their own culture and were willing to become arabs.

Not so the iranians. The Iranian Empire which was conquered by the arab hordes was the of the Sassanid Dynasty which existed since the year 250, a rival of the roman Empire and quite succesful in many battles against the romans. They had their own religion - an intolerant version of Zorastrism with a mighty priest caste.
But when the arabs invaded the Sassanid Empire had become corrupt and weak.

After being conquered by the arabs the arabs offered the iranians to become arabs - but they refused. Instead they started a bloody fighting against loosing the iranian heritage. The iranian language was forbidden but there was also resistance against this plan of the invaders to destroy the iranian culture.
Thats one reason why you find in Iran so many statues of poets, because people like Firdausi who wrote the Shahname were succesful to avoid that the iranian language was lost. They are admired as those who saved important parts of our culture.

The iranians also build their own version of Islam by mixing elements of their old religion and the new Islam. The result is the today shiŽite islam and it is no coincidence that the iranian mullahs wear the same style of cloths like the old sassanid priests.

So since these times there is the hate between iranians and arabs - 1st by the racial point of view (arian iranians and semite arabs) and 2nd by religion (Sunnites and ShiŽites, who consider each other as heretics).

For many years the dominating arabs who were occuping the region of Sassanid Empire were fighting brutally against the shiŽite heretics. And the shiŽite tactic was to fight also by sacrifing their fighters in suicide operations.
This martyrism is highly respected and worshipped in the shiŽite culture. It has also a great potential when the creation of fanatic troops are needed.
When Saddam and his arab hordes were trying to invade Iran Ayatollah Khomeini could rely on this fanatism. He declared that whoever dies in fighting the arab heretics will become a martyr and join paradise after death. And so he got hundredthousands of fanatic troops who were used for the human-wave-attacks against the iraqis. The losses in these attacks were huge but they kicked out the arabs from iranian territory and only the massive help from countries like France or the USA saved Saddam in these days.

Its also no coincidence where the most shiŽite people live: In Iran and the southeastern part of Iraq: These was the main area of the Sassanid Empire. South from Bagdad - today Iraq - are the ruins of the old sassanid capital. And in Iraq there are the most holy shrines of the shiŽite culture.

After the Safawid dynasty liberated Iran the shiŽites were ruling Iran - which was surrounded by (what they see) heretics. And the sunnites considered the Iranians as heretics.

This thinking remains until today where the Talibans also defined the Iranians as heretics. So it was always ridiculous for an iranian to read these propaganda-nonsense-news that Iran is supporting today Taliban fighters in Afghanistan.

Ironicly it was the policy of Bush which brought the mullahs what they mostly wanted: Control of the holy sites in Iraq.
The iraqi shiŽites are under control of the iranian great-ayatollah Sistani and the iranian influence in this region is now greater than ever in the last 100 years. And all without wasting the life of a single iranian soldier.

[Seagoon]

Hi Thrawn,

Originally posted by Thrawn
And that has changed?  Isn't Al-Quaeda made up of Shia?

No, AQ is a Wahhabi Sunni organization and one of many Sunni terror groups that are affiliated with the Muslim Brotherhood and embrace the philosophy of Hasan Al-Bana.

Wahhabism is the most "pure" form of Sunni Islam, and is growing quickly due to the fact that it is officially supported and exported by the Saudi Government. They are spending literally billions of their petrochemicals to found Wahabi mosques, train Wahabi Imams, and diseminate Wahabi literature. The Taliban, for instance, are a Wahabi organization, hence their close ties with Al-Qaeda and Bin Laden.

The Shia are only a majority in Iran and Iraq, in most middle-eastern Shia countries they are viewed as schismatics and are actively persecuted. They have their own terrorist organizations like Hezbollah.

I haven't read any of the Wikki articles on them, but I imagine a Wiki search on topics like Hezbollah, Wahhabism, Taliban, and Muslim Brotherhood should give you a basic background in the differences and origins.

Well I'm off to bed, extraordinarily pooped.

- SEAGOON

[SMIDSY]

wow. that cartoon was great! i loved it! well written diolouge. good character development, exelent symbolism. a tour de force.
the only place this movie dissapoints in is that there is no "death to america" reference:cry  very dissapointin. but i still give it a very enthusistic 3 out of 5.

[Gunslinger]

Thanks for the info goon, I was just reading about the brotherhood earlier today Egypt: Muslim Brotherhood scoring high

[Saintaw]

Originally posted by Ripsnort
^^I find it hilarious (and scarey at the same time) at the lengths people will go to justify their obtuse views on fundamentalist muslim religions.

LMAO! And you of all pple is the expert in that matter, yeah?

[Ripsnort]

Originally posted by Saintaw
LMAO! And you of all pple is the expert in that matter, yeah?

Yes, I am an expert in my opinion.

[FiLtH]

Im sure that the leaders are so concerned with the youth who do this. And seeing that pic Rip posted with the little fella with the canisters around his tiny body is heartbreaking. He should be bouncing on someones knee, not involved with all that crap.

[JBA]

I work with an Iranian I'll ask him to veiw it check the translation.

[boxboy28]

deep thoughts..................

I wonder does a gay arab man have a lisp.. like a majority of the gay american males?

[FiLtH]

He probably doesnt have a tongue.