Author Topic: Oliver North (Read 1576 times)

Udie · « **on:** December 20, 2001, 08:57:00 AM »

Saw him this morning on Fox news. He said something that made up my mind on Al Queda prisoners. He talked about an incedent in the Gulf war where a camera just happened to be present to catch it on film.

A bunch of Iraqi's were surrendering to some American soldiers. He said they were very scared and one of them said to the American soldier, please don't shoot us. The American simply said "Don't worry, we're American, we don't do that."

As much as I personaly want to torture these people, I realize we can't. Since Sept. 11, there's one major part about being American that I forgot about. That would be our respect and love of human life. Our enemy doesn't share this belief and is the major reason they are our enemies.

The urge is there, but let's just hope that we don't put ourselves down on their level. This may be the toughest part of this war for me, keeping my humanity...

maddog · « **Reply #1 on:** December 20, 2001, 09:31:00 AM »

Well said

indian · « **Reply #2 on:** December 20, 2001, 09:42:00 AM »

Damn it just when I was convinced you were not human you go and do this.

We Americans allways find a way to do whats right even when we truely want to do the wrong. I personaly whould like to see them tortured for what the trained to do but I know it not right. If I was still in the Army I do know I could not do any harm to an unarmed enemy.

Octavius · « **Reply #3 on:** December 20, 2001, 10:29:00 AM »

what maddog said.

Raubvogel · « **Reply #4 on:** December 20, 2001, 10:43:00 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Udie:
That would be our respect and love of human life.

That's why we have the death sentence?

(I agree with your post, but have to play Devil's Advocate at this statement.)

AKIron · « **Reply #5 on:** December 20, 2001, 11:00:00 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Raubvogel:

That's why we have the death sentence? (I agree with your post, but have to play Devil's Advocate at this statement.)

Awww sh*t, here we go. That's exactly why we have the death penalty. If it's not an effective deterrent then perhaps torture would do.

Udie · « **Reply #6 on:** December 20, 2001, 11:37:00 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Raubvogel:

That's why we have the death sentence? (I agree with your post, but have to play Devil's Advocate at this statement.)

Actualy I don't support the death penalty here in America. Which may be why I'm having such emotional dificulty with how to deal with these guys. And I do admit to feeling hipocritical about wanting the death penalty for UBL and his chronies. My justification is that these guys have no remorse and will stop at nothing to kill all westeners.

AND

I don't want this thread to turn into a death penalty debate, though that door is open now I guess...

Raubvogel · « **Reply #7 on:** December 20, 2001, 11:54:00 AM »

For the record, I support the death penalty. I just thought it was ironic that you mentioned American's love and respect for life when we are one of the only major countries who still execute people.

Udie · « **Reply #8 on:** December 20, 2001, 11:59:00 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Raubvogel:
For the record, I support the death penalty. I just thought it was ironic that you mentioned American's love and respect for life when we are one of the only major countries who still execute people.

Well of course we have our own "issues" but I was speaking in historical terms. No country in history has been as humanitarian as ours of the past 60 yrs, even with all the "covert" stuff we did.

1776 · « **Reply #9 on:** December 20, 2001, 12:37:00 PM »

Before we go off half-cocked, we still have abortion on demand. Now the death penalty is justified as the person has been judged evil, outside the law, and uncivilized. Death has been determined by our society to be the only solution to stop this type of individual. OBL sure qulifies as evil in a high percentage of American's minds!

Now I am sorry about bringing abortion into this discussion, but this in my mind doesn't show a respect for life.

My wish is that this issue were outside the court system so the American people could have input on this issue. I would like to see a vote by the American people on this issue. I think we would be shocked at the result and would then be worthy of our "respect for life" we feel we have now.

Flame away

Sorry for the hijack too, but this is a matter of respect for life too.

[ 12-20-2001: Message edited by: 1776 ]

hitech · « **Reply #10 on:** December 20, 2001, 12:40:00 PM »

Just had a curious thought, How is the death penalty any different then shooting some one in battle?

HiTech

1776 · « **Reply #11 on:** December 20, 2001, 12:45:00 PM »

Both are accepted forms of the application of death. The death penalty is rendered under civilized law. Death in war is justified by the rules of war. Two different arenas, but both have rules.

Udie · « **Reply #12 on:** December 20, 2001, 12:50:00 PM »

Because it's war, by defenition that's what they do. Kill each other. I'm not real big on war either, unless I feel it's justified.

Raubvogel · « **Reply #13 on:** December 20, 2001, 12:55:00 PM »

The death penalty is different from shooting someone in battle because the guy in the electric chair isn't heavily armed and out to get you. In war you're trying to kill the other guy before he can kill you. If you knocked him out, tied him up, then shot him in the head when he woke up, then it would be like the death penalty.

easymo · « **Reply #14 on:** December 20, 2001, 01:46:00 PM »

These servicemen are the same guys you went to high school with, snuck beers with, chased girls with. They did not suddenly become robot killers, just because they joined the Army. They still hold the same respect for life as any American. More to the point, there sense of honor must not be assailed. In their business (killing) there can never be any question that they were justified. They will have to live with what they did, long after they leave the service. Shooting unarmed prisoners has never fit into the rules of engagement of a U.S. serviceman. They are confident that they will never be asked to do something dishonorable by their officers. This confidence must be guarded by we the people.