Author Topic: Why I dont think the Spit XVI should be perked (Read 2868 times)

Kev367th · « **Reply #45 on:** November 19, 2005, 07:23:23 PM »

Equally strange there's been no thread suggesting the VIII gets perked.

Compared to the XVI the XIII -
Same motor.
Slightly heavier with full fuel. (has wing tanks)
Turns better.
Rolls worse.
Slightly faster.
With same fuel load as the XVI, the VIII will climb slighly faster (approx extra 200fpm).

It's gotta be the 'XVI' tag thats got people 'confused'/upset.

So you perk the XVI, everyone moves to the VIII, people realise its almost identical to the XVI, it gets perked, viola, we're back to a 1942 Spit IX.

DREDIOCK · « **Reply #46 on:** November 19, 2005, 07:24:09 PM »

I say perk everything reguardless of plane type.
both fighters and bombers
and perk them by year.

1939-41 = 0 perks
1942-43 = moderately perked
1944-45 = heavily perked

Morpheus · « **Reply #47 on:** November 19, 2005, 07:36:58 PM »

I dont think, the spit16 is all that great, great enough to be perked.

Its fast, but not extremly fast, its manuverable, but there are far better turn fighters in the game. In the end it all comes down to the fight, and who's flying what and how its being flown.

You can fly a 51 in the MA and NEVER die. Sticking only to BnZ, managing your energy down to the last drop. Is it perked? No. But it remains unperked for many reasons.

This is a game, and people want to have fun. In the end, paying for planes is not fun, regardless of how many perks you have saved up. There are those planes that stick out in the plane set. Such as the tempest and the Me262. The MA would not be a fun place if it were full of tempests and 262's running around. Atleast not for those who do not want to fly late war monsters. That's why they're perked.

Spit16's are pretty easy to deal with. They climb good, they have good speed, but that is about it. They do not turn well enough to be able to out turn every single plane in the game. They are not going to run down an La7, then win a turn fight with a zeek flying both planes on the stall envelope. No way in hell.

This thread is identical to the Ki84 threads when it first came out. Everyone thought that the Ki84 was going to be gods gift to AH. One that can run down mustangs at 550mph and then win a turn fight with EVERYTHING then be back at 550mph in no time.

DREDIOCK · « **Reply #48 on:** November 19, 2005, 07:46:49 PM »

Just from what my outside observations are.
I havent flown the new dwee errr Spit 16
But nears as I can tell from fighting against them.

Reasonably fast.
Rolls well
Climb well for a while.

Turns and loops. Do both very well in the beginning of a fight but the longer the fight wears on the less effective its turn rate seems to be.
Reminds me kinda of the FW a5.

Like I said, thats how they seem to me from going against them

Seems like a good plane to cherry pick in though

hubsonfire · « **Reply #49 on:** November 19, 2005, 08:19:20 PM »

Call me crazy, but I'm not thinking perking it would do anything but turn it into a hangar queen. I've been flying the XVI a lot lately, and it seems to me, (hopefully I'm what you would consider an average MA pilot), that the XVI is great at midalt fighting, being fairly fast, fairly well armed, and fairly maneuverable. Okay, this stands to reason that it would be good at what it's designed for. It still is outgunned by more than a few planes, outrun by more than a few planes, and outturned by more than a few planes.

In addition, although this isn't that important to me, it doesn't have a massive ord loadout, and it's not all that great at extreme alts. Its relative abundance has neutered any real semblance of imbalance - if everybody is flying the same plane, the strengths of a particular plane over the others becomes a moot point.

Just my $.02.

Simaril · « **Reply #50 on:** November 19, 2005, 08:20:28 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by DREDIOCK
Just from what my outside observations are.
I havent flown the new dwee errr Spit 16
But nears as I can tell from fighting against them.

Reasonably fast.
Rolls well
Climb well for a while.

Turns and loops. Do both very well in the beginning of a fight but the longer the fight wears on the less effective its turn rate seems to be.
Reminds me kinda of the FW a5.

Like I said, thats how they seem to me from going against them

Seems like a good plane to cherry pick in though

And (due to the inexperienced pilots) a nice plane to cherry pick ON....

Tonite rode a B-pony toward FT base, found a spit coming toward me 2K below. Engaged, looped over, he did same, but he didnt manage E at all -- I relaxed the next loop wnough that it turned into a wussy rope, and next thing I know th XVI stalls. I had to get all aggressive to put a ping on it so it wouldnt be a proxy. Nice thing is -- you can get a lot of perks in a hurry against the XVI, even if you'r ea dweeb like me!

mechanic · « **Reply #51 on:** November 19, 2005, 08:30:00 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Ack-Ack
Get into a low speed turn/stall fight with a Zero/Zeke and you'll see how quickly you'll be sent to the tower. Better yet, show us a film of you in a low speed/stall fight with one in a XVI.

I have fought against numerous XVI's and not one of them has been able to stick with my P-38J in a low speed turn fight when the speed has dipped below 150mph IAS or slower. A Spitfire XIV has a better turning ability than the XVI. Those clipped wings come at a price.

ack-ack

i'd be more than willing to contend your statements about the zeke and the p38j vs the mmk16 in the DA? if you are willing to.

it is no problem chewing up a zeke in a spit5 right? the spit16 is hardly different, looks you, i started a spit squadron to put up the rejected spit dweebs in AH1 when spits were ghey, now everyone flies them but if i know one plane here i know my spit.. you're assumptions are based on lessskilled or unskilled opponents in the MA.

simbad the sailor.....you know blukitty anyone? ask him if he thinks he could take out a zeke in his mk16.

you akak are simply misjudging the potential of how this plane is modeled, and you morpheus/sinbad are just dribling at my feet like usual pouncing on my every possible tiny error and humping it quietly to yourself. you're no where near the pilot i might have once thought you were a while back, you are set by such weak limitations..

any how, enjoy the thread. these are my opinions, contest them in the DA if you will, but nolonger in words if you may.

Morpheus · « **Reply #52 on:** November 19, 2005, 08:46:08 PM »

LOL OMG now you are king know it all of spits. ROTLFMFAO.

Anytime anywhere... You think you can beat me in a turn fight with me in a zeek, prove it.

PS- There were MANY people flying spits long before you ever entered the MA.

And I dont care what ManeTMP/BluKitty thinks. lolol

Ack-Ack · « **Reply #53 on:** November 19, 2005, 09:26:26 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by mechanic

it is no problem chewing up a zeke in a spit5 right? the spit16 is hardly different, looks you, i started a spit squadron to put up the rejected spit dweebs in AH1 when spits were ghey, now everyone flies them but if i know one plane here i know my spit.. you're assumptions are based on lessskilled or unskilled opponents in the MA.

Get pilots of equal skill in each of the planes and the Zeke/Zero will take the prize home. The Spitfire Vb cannot turn with a Zeke at medium and low speeds. If the Spitfire Vb pilot wants to try a turn fight, it's best to keep it at higher speeds where it does have the slighter edge. But in a substained turn fight and even in a stall fight, the Zeke has a significant edge.

The fact is, the Spitfire XVI is not all that great of a turn fighter compared to the other Spitfires. The Spitfire XIV turns better, the VIII turns better, the IX turns better, the Vb turns better, the Seafire IIc turns better, the Mk I turns better.

The clipped wings on the Spitfire XVI was not to make it turn better, it was to make it roll better at lower altitudes to go against the A series FW190s but these clipped wings come at a price and turning and low speed handling was the price the XVI sacrificed.

So far I've been 16-4 against Spitfires XVI and despite what you think, at least half of those kills were against pilots that are far better than yourself.

Quote

you akak are simply misjudging the potential of how this plane is modeled, and you morpheus/sinbad are just dribling at my feet like usual pouncing on my every possible tiny error and humping it quietly to yourself. you're no where near the pilot i might have once thought you were a while back, you are set by such weak limitations..

Why is it when someone disagrees with you that you take it as a personal insult? Are you that insecure about yourself? Just because from my experience I find that the Spitfire XVI is not the uber plane you think it is? Maybe it stems from the experience I have from fighting these planes and I hate to tell you, I've fought against far more better Spitfire pilot such as yourself and have a little more experience than you do.

Anyone can turn and burn in a Spitfire, it doesn't take all that much skill to be successful in one. You're proof of that.

If you want to duel, whenever you find me on holler.

ack-ack

Karnak · « **Reply #54 on:** November 19, 2005, 10:11:00 PM »

Mechanic,

Here's the thing, if I take a Spitfire XVI against an A6M2 or A6M5 I will win most of the time, but I won't win by out turning it in a stall fight like you are claiming I could. I will win by over powering it and out manuvering it at speed.

Any fighter in AH, particularly a heavier, later war varient like the Spitfire XVI, that tries to out turn an A6M2 or A6M5 in a stall fight will lose in short order. Nothing in AH turns as well in that circumstance as does an A6M.

When we get the Ki-43 we'll have something that will out do the A6Ms, but until then the A6M is the king of the stall fight.

BBQ_Bob · « **Reply #55 on:** November 19, 2005, 11:00:10 PM »

If you guys ever go to the DA film it and post it here then we all will know the facts.

Ack-Ack · « **Reply #56 on:** November 19, 2005, 11:11:57 PM »

This is something that can filmed in a regular MA enviroment. All Mechanic needs to do is film himself in a substained turn fight with a Zeke/Zero in a Spitfire XVI.

ack-ack

Simaril · « **Reply #57 on:** November 20, 2005, 06:47:33 AM »

It amazes me how quickly and reliably any discussion turns into a poo-slingling contest.

I've learned through my own mistaken involvement in these fights to stay away....

The thing about poo slingling is that no matter who started it, no matter who's right, everybody in the fight comes out smelling bad.....If somebody is imitating the back of his lap, try just ignoring him -- after a simple "Wrong. DA, any time."

If nobody fights him, the poo slinger just ends up sitting by himself, with a room full of his own poo.

killnu · « **Reply #58 on:** November 20, 2005, 06:58:03 AM »

ive turned with a zeke and got him to overshoot and kilt him with a 16. i dove to get him fast tho. last time i checked, zekes dont roll all that great.

a sustained turn fight at low speeds might get bad, but if that happens, i would use the 16s speed adv and grab out, then turn and set up fight on my terms again. so, even if you fight a zeke vs 16 in DA, there is an envelope that 16 is better than zeke in, and once the 16 leaves that envelope he can extend till he reaches it again.

killnu · « **Reply #59 on:** November 20, 2005, 07:00:52 AM »

and it sure seems, that alot of people are making assumptions about "turning". I dont recall reading mechanic say anything about sustained flat turns in a loop. im thinking there is a tad more to "turn fighting" than sustained flat turns.