Author Topic: An end to Dive Bombing Buffs? G-Load limts for buff wings (Read 1632 times)

rabbidrabbit · « **Reply #15 on:** November 25, 2005, 03:55:52 PM »

Clearly bombers are gamed in a way very inconsistent to real usage. How about using f6 for bomb release only as asked HT? Is there any intent to deal with this issue or is it a non issue to HTC? It would be nice to have a thread deal with this issue in a fair and appropiate manner. I think it falls under "I like realism as long as it enhances gameply" dictum.

Lan784 · « **Reply #16 on:** November 26, 2005, 03:01:40 AM »

simarli U R WRONG SIR WRONG WRONG WRONG. B17s could stand a dive. how in the world do u think they put out engine fires??? they dove to the maximum speed that the plane would alow to put out fires that the extinquisher couldnt put out. Plus there isnt really any desing flaws to tell you that it cannot dive with bombs. EVERY PLANE CAN DIVE BOMB TO A CERTAINT EXTENT!!!! The B17 can dive for 5000 feet before the pilot has trouble keeping the nose down. If you think about it the plane can dive with bombs its just the pull up after that you get ur tips broken off. I have read in some articles off the internet that some 17s did dive (although not very steep or steep) on there targets when they were low alt. And this goes for all bombers!!!! So in a short summary These planes can handle dives and ur just going to have to live with it.

mussie · « **Reply #17 on:** November 26, 2005, 03:05:27 AM »

Of course they can dive. But how much, How Fast and How hard can they pull out.....

Oh and I am a toolsheading Furballer so dont think I am anti tool shedder.

hitech · « **Reply #18 on:** November 26, 2005, 10:33:31 AM »

rabbidrabbit: Every plane or vehicle is, So going to be realy difficult to use that as an argument for changing that piece of the bomber .

HiTech

Simaril · « **Reply #19 on:** November 27, 2005, 09:30:59 AM »

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Originally posted by Lan784
simarli U R WRONG SIR WRONG WRONG WRONG. B17s could stand a dive. how in the world do u think they put out engine fires??? they dove to the maximum speed that the plane would alow to put out fires that the extinquisher couldnt put out. Plus there isnt really any desing flaws to tell you that it cannot dive with bombs. EVERY PLANE CAN DIVE BOMB TO A CERTAINT EXTENT!!!! The B17 can dive for 5000 feet before the pilot has trouble keeping the nose down. If you think about it the plane can dive with bombs its just the pull up after that you get ur tips broken off. I have read in some articles off the internet that some 17s did dive (although not very steep or steep) on there targets when they were low alt. And this goes for all bombers!!!! So in a short summary These planes can handle dives and ur just going to have to live with it.

Lan you may have read all sorts of interesting things, but your manner displays more ignorance than wisdom. Allow me to quote from the B-17 technical orders:

Quote

The structural factors limiting the dive speed to 305 mph are the engine ring cowl strength, the wing leading edge de-icer boot strength, the pilot compartment winshield and enclosure strength, and the critical flutter speed. The engine ring cowl has been designed to wthstand 420 mph. Windshield and pilot compartment have ample margin at 305 mph. The wing leading edge de-icer boots begin to rise slightly form the wing at 305 mph, and any excessive additional speed would probably lift the upper portion of the boot well above the wing surface and allow it to flap severely against the leading edge, thus causing a structural failure.

This is just one area of inquiry that cahllenges current MA usage of the buffs, Lan. YOU need to realize that when the war stories talk about "diving to put out fires" they're not talking about diving the way you mean it. The cruise speeds of B17s, at which the fires started, are much lower than the firewalled speeds most use here. Diving meant dropping altitude to pick up speed, not nosing down to dive bomb. If you start at full power and dive for 5000 feet in a b17, the wings would rip off long before you dropped ord.

And, to quote you, you're just going to have to live with it.

Simaril · « **Reply #20 on:** November 27, 2005, 09:34:57 AM »

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Originally posted by hitech
If you can find some detail data on max forces on any buffs we would be glad to take a look at them. But you might be suprised how low the g limits already are.

HiTech

Thanks for the consideration, HT.

My intention is purely to gather data, not to start a whine fest. I know you guys take your modelling very seriously, and I know my ideas are now conceptual rather than documented. I'm chasing down some leads, but I realize that archival digging is slow and painstaking -- so I dont expect to be coming back to the board with evidence for a while.

Simaril