Author Topic: HO bubble (Read 5511 times)

Sandman · « **Reply #120 on:** November 29, 2005, 11:19:09 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Sundowner
As so many old sticks have so elagantly put it:

Maintain speed control w/ throttle/pitch inputs.
You want to execute your lead turn at your aircraft's best cornering speed.
Planes "rate their nose" best at a unique speed for each type of aircraft.
"Rate" refers to degrees of turn rate per sec your nose moves in the turn.
You must know what your plane's best corner speed is beforehand and execute your lead turn at that speed.
BTW, I hardly ever flat lead turn.
Slightly negative AOA helps maintain your energy thru the turn. (slightly pitch down)
If I can haul my nose around at 35deg/sec and the bogie is only pulling 30deg/sec then I am gaining angles that eventually will turn into a gun solution.

Most of this is familiar, but you've got me wondering with that last part. You can get 35 deg/sec with a negative AOA?

Octavius · « **Reply #121 on:** November 30, 2005, 12:31:35 AM »

Thanks Sundowner, that was beautiful. Initial assessment and planning accounts for less than squat in any engagement... The rest is reactionary and instinctive maneuvering. React to the E, can't think about it.

Quote

Also watch for him to try to lead turn at the merge.
If he does, he's not a dweeb.

Your in luck...your in for a fight.

[/b]

hehehe, it may be a fun fight, or you could be evil and rope the rope the bastard.

Dont slow for the lead turn, firewall it, mirror his attempt to get under the nose, blow through and go vertical. They'll hit their nifty max DPS and whip their nose around with E to spare. If they kept track of you through the turn, they may decide to take a shot and risk the rope. It's very tempting to follow the other guy up with .50s, or hispandos, whatever. It comes down to a little luck and some good control management at the top. If you played him right, you'll have a decent shot whilst thy foe stalleth.

It's especially satisfying when the other guy is Shane and you are both D11s.

TequilaChaser · « **Reply #122 on:** November 30, 2005, 03:56:02 AM »

quote- Originally posted by Sundowner
As so many old sticks have so elagantly put it:
snip~~~~
Slightly negative AOA helps maintain your energy thru the turn. (slightly pitch down)
If I can haul my nose around at 35deg/sec and the bogie is only pulling 30deg/sec then I am gaining angles that eventually will turn into a gun solution.

Originally posted by Sandman
Most of this is familiar, but you've got me wondering with that last part. You can get 35 deg/sec with a negative AOA?

Sundowner was using a hypothetical situation/example when he said him=35 DPS vs opponents 30 DPS

Sundowner, well said!

Wilbus · « **Reply #123 on:** November 30, 2005, 04:01:25 AM »

Quote

Having said that we in AH need to be nicer to the new players. Take them under our wings show them how to play. The other thing that is needed in AH is a better training system. In the other sims there was trainers that had classes a few times each week. Well in AW and FA there was, because I went to them.... I don't remember if WB had that or not and I do not recall any thing like that in AH.

There is a quite good trainers system in AH I believe but maybe it should be advertised more?

One thing, anyone can sign up inside of AH and take a newbie under his/her wings.

New accounters get the option to become cadets.

Under Roster there is "Trainer"". Click it and you see cadets and get the option to help them. If they sign up after their two weeks and give you credit for helping them out you recieve 10 dollars from HTC (or it used to be like that atleast).

More then this there are dedicated trainers whom can easily, very easily be found on the froums, specially the HELP AND TRAINING (surprise?

) forum.

I think the problem lies more in the fact that new people, or people in general never bother asking for help.

If they just sit there nothing will happen, if they spend five minutes and post on the forums asking for help they will get it.

Karnak sure thing! Mail me at "rasmus_friluft@yahoo.se"

Shoot me a mail and let me know what times you can fly and we'll see if I can make those times aswell.

bozon · « **Reply #124 on:** November 30, 2005, 04:04:56 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by CAV
What I was thinking was add more perk planes to the list, Ok maybe not down to just the 41/42 plane set being free, but a larger perk plane list. Also reset the points at the start of each campaign, or maybe when the map is won and reset. This way newbie and vets start the war with the same number of points to fight with...

This suggestion came up before. The purpose was to shift the mainstray of planes to 1943 era, but still have non-negligible 1944/5 pupolation through VERY light perking. It was refered to as the "perk agenda" by Kweassa iirc.
Though I personally liked it, the majority of players hated it. Especially those who fly only La7, P51D, 190D9 and 109G10/K4 and refused to fly the La5, P51B, 190A8, 109G6 occasionally.

I still think this is a very good idea and even better now that we have the plane lines redone and the icon system changed (no more "kill me" tag at 6k out). As it is now, perks are useless, unless you have a temp/spit14/F4U4/152 fetish. An La7 pilot couldn't care less about them.

Bozon

straffo · « **Reply #125 on:** November 30, 2005, 05:02:45 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by bozon
This suggestion came up before. The purpose was to shift the mainstray of planes to 1943 era, but still have non-negligible 1944/5 pupolation through VERY light perking. It was refered to as the "perk agenda" by Kweassa iirc.
Though I personally liked it, the majority of players hated it. Especially those who fly only La7, P51D, 190D9 and 109G10/K4 and refused to fly the La5, P51B, 190A8, 109G6 occasionally.

I still think this is a very good idea and even better now that we have the plane lines redone and the icon system changed (no more "kill me" tag at 6k out). As it is now, perks are useless, unless you have a temp/spit14/F4U4/152 fetish. An La7 pilot couldn't care less about them.

Bozon

You gave me an idea ...

What about changing icon range depending of the plane ?

Like for the fw190 :

6k for the D9
5k for the A8
4K for the A5

or

6k for the spitXIV
5k for the spitVIII/IX/XVI
4K for the spit V/seafire
3K for the spit Ia

Sundowner · « **Reply #126 on:** November 30, 2005, 05:23:50 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Sandman
Most of this is familiar, but you've got me wondering with that last part. You can get 35 deg/sec with a negative AOA?

Sorry for any confusion, I mearly picked a random rate of turn figure out of the air to illustrate how a higher turn rate gains angles over a lower enemy turn rate.

Your "nose rate" will vary and is a variable from plane to plane.

Regards
Sun

Sandman · « **Reply #127 on:** November 30, 2005, 09:53:22 AM »

Okay... I'm still trying to wrap my head around turning with a negative AOA regardless of the deg/sec.

Masherbrum · « **Reply #128 on:** November 30, 2005, 09:58:09 AM »

I enjoy winning HO's against La7's, 110's, Spit's etc with a Peeeeeeeeeeeee38J. I have learned the secret to HO'ing and living. No I will not share it. I rarely even take damage anymore.

Keep the easiest killz coming.

Karaya

Dead Man Flying · « **Reply #129 on:** November 30, 2005, 12:16:00 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Masherbrum
I have learned the secret to HO'ing and living. No I will not share it. I rarely even take damage anymore.

Of course you have!

-- Todd/Leviathn

Lye-El · « **Reply #130 on:** November 30, 2005, 04:23:25 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Karnak
I wonder what the average player's perk bank looks like?

.

HTs perk bonus was more that I have ever got in fighters. Admitedly, I don't spend that much time in fighters.

Wilbus · « **Reply #131 on:** November 30, 2005, 04:33:44 PM »

We just got a perk bonus?

Sundowner · « **Reply #132 on:** November 30, 2005, 06:24:38 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Octavius
quote:Also watch for him to try to lead turn at the merge.
If he does, he's not a dweeb.

Your in luck...your in for a fight.

hehehe, it may be a fun fight, or you could be evil and rope the rope the bastard.

Dont slow for the lead turn, firewall it, mirror his attempt to get under the nose, blow through and go vertical. They'll hit their nifty max DPS and whip their nose around with E to spare. If they kept track of you through the turn, they may decide to take a shot and risk the rope. It's very tempting to follow the other guy up with .50s, or hispandos, whatever. It comes down to a little luck and some good control management at the top. If you played him right, you'll have a decent shot whilst thy foe stalleth.

It's especially satisfying when the other guy is Shane and you are both D11s. [/B]

Heheh Octavius,
"It comes down to a little luck and some good control management at the top.If you played him right, you'll have a decent shot whilst thy foe stalleth." is dead on.

I've found that right here, if you can afford the E, adding a slow left turn while watching 6 view can keep you out of his guns solution hopefully as he drops below his "over the top" speed.
"Out of plane" lift vectors help burn his E in the climb as he follows you up.

This works really well Vs P-38s as it's best "nose rate" configuration seems to be "nose low turns".
If you pull high E spiral climbs (nose high turns) with flaps it's the worst situation for him to maintain E with you.
Please dont try this P-38 Vs P-38 as I will not be held responsible for you getting your knickers ripped.

After reading your post, now I gotta go listen to "Top Gun" real loud.

Regards
Sun

Sundowner · « **Reply #133 on:** November 30, 2005, 07:33:19 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Sandman
Okay... I'm still trying to wrap my head around turning with a negative AOA regardless of the deg/sec.

What I mean is a "nose low" turn.
This can be a very low negative pitch angle.
You wont be able to read the HSI attitude for -.5 deg pitch but you can use the climb/dive needle to see a pitch that small. (Needle drives to "dive")

Nose low turns help to preserve/create air speed to help maintain your plane's best turn speed thereby maintaining your best "nose rate" in the turn.
But not so much as you add more distance to your turn.
The goal is to combine descent+throttle+WEP to help sustain speed through the turn.

This is not to mean that every time you do a lead turn you have full power selected.
If my plane's best "corner speed" is 250mph I may have to bleed speed in the turn to get there.
Still I got in the habit of "nose low" lead turns. I only to have to "meter" in throttle for my target speed.
If I find I need full power with nose low to stay near my best corner speed Im allready slightly nose low.

Btw, in a lead turn with a -.5 deg pitch componant, roll angle will be -89.5deg. (Climb/Dive indicator drives to "Dive")
A pure flat plane turn, roll angle = 90deg. (Climb/Dive indicator =0)
A climbing turn with +.5 deg pitch-- roll angle = 89.5 (Climb/Dive indicator drives to "Climb")

Beware, some plane's absolute best corner speed can be quite low. You may not feel comfortable dropping to that low of a speed/E state at the merge.
A happy combination of good "nose rate" AND good E retention (speed) is what I go for.
This combination may or may not be at my planes absolute best corner speed.

Regards
Sun