HO bubble

[DoKGonZo]

Limiting planes like you suggest would drive a lot of players away. I dare say the majority of the current crop couldn't get by without the '44 era uber planes.


However, I could see every plane being worth a certain amount of negative perks when you get it blown out from under you. So the HO'er who flies his La-7 until he dies every time will pretty much always have a 0 perk balance - any points he may gain from HO'ing (or pork-running) will be lost when his plane goes boom.

So lets say a CHog is 8 perks to buy and 0 perks if shot down (since you already "paid" for it). An La-7 would be worth 0 points to buy but maybe 5 points if it gets shot down. So you could always fly it, but if you never land any kills you'll drain whatever perks you got pretty quick. Ditto for sewercide NOE bomber types.

Maybe combine this with making planes like the P51D and La-7 and D9 (if/when it gets fixed) worth 1 or 2 perks to buy.

     -DoK

[Wilbus]

Often on the 2nd or 3rd merge we are once again coming into a nose on nose situation. I try to avoid that, and often lose a wing. Next time I think I'll just go for the "high angle deflection shot" and when the bogey whines on 200, I'll just say the guys on the BBS said that it wasn't a HO.

If you get a head-on after head-on situation you are doing something wrong

No offence but you probarly don't try the tricks in the book or fly on feeling, maybe you're just trying the immelman over and over again or something similair?

Let me know if you wanna go to DA some day

[Karnak]

CAV,

That wouldn't work.  Imagine logging on to AH for the first time and taking a Spit I or P-40 because they are famous and trying to learn how to fly and fight in a world of La-7s, Spitfire Mk XVIs and Ki-84s.  Almost nobody would subscribe after their two week trial was over.  For us vets clubbing newbies in their La-7s is easy enough, imagine forcing them into P-40Bs.  They'd be utterly helpless.

DoKGonZo,

That is an interesting idea and one of those incredibly rare ones I have not seen before.  I wonder what effect it would have?  It might make people irritatingly prone to flying La-7s, Typhoons and Fw190D-9s and very timidly at that.

Wilbus,

I want to go to the DA and learn.  I have recently started getting back into AH and boy do I have some rust to blow off.  I used to manage 2.5-3/1 K/D in the Mossie and now I am having trouble getting above 1.5/1 in the Spit VIII.

Also, I was not joking earlier when I said I have no problem dodging the HO, but I screw it up after that.

[J_A_B]

"I dare say the majority of the current crop couldn't get by without the '44 era uber planes."

Replace "couldn't" with "wouldn't" and it might be more accurate.  I for one have utterly no interest in any except 1 specific unit.  I think many people like later-model planes in general just because they're more fun to fly and fight in since they can do more and sustain more maneuvers.  Early-war planes fighting is like watching old people dance--it's painfully slow and not much fun.

Remember that even AW in its heyday was fundamentally a mid/late 1944 game.  It was still P-38J's and FW-190A-8's and Spit 9's and P-51's and such.  The AH MA represents a marginally later period, but not much.

Speaking of ICONS, remember how the ICONS in AW were off to the side?  You could either watch the other guy's plane, or watch the ICON, but not both.  The ICON was something you would just glance at now and then, not follow around like in AH.


J_A_B

[CAV]

Limiting planes like you suggest would drive a lot of players away. I dare say the majority of the current crop couldn't get by without the '44 era uber planes.

What I was thinking, was you start out each campaign with a few 100 perk points. So they aren't limited, they get to fly anything they want... to start. But if they do not play smart, the number of perks gets lower... maybe to the point of only having the free planes, till they get more points.  At some point they are going to.. hopefully.. gets a clue that the HO isn't the best air to air tactic to be using all the time. As far driving player away... if they have, that love for the old War planes, that many the older player have they may take the time to understand ACM & air combat. And if they are not that type of player.... Do we want them around anyway?

Having said that we in AH need to be nicer to the new players. Take them under our wings show them how to play. The other thing that is needed in AH is a better training system. In the other sims there was trainers that had classes a few times each week. Well in AW and FA there was, because I went to them.... I don't remember if WB had that or not and I do not recall any thing like that in AH.

CAVALRY

[DoKGonZo]

I think as long as the points lost for losing a non-perked plane was pretty low it wouldn't make people too timid. They could still fly pretty much what they can now, they just end up perkless because they're losing planes so fast.

What'd be interesting from a psychological angle is what effect this has given how rare it is to see perked planes to start with. You're basically removing points from something that most players rearely spend to begin with.


And there are variations. Like suppose the first plane you lose costs you 0 perks, if your next flight you get shot down again it costs 2 perks for that plane, then 4, then 6. If you're a pork-runner or ho-beast who dies every flight, all of a sudden it's costing you 20 perks per mission. If you land a mission ("landing" means at least landing with an assist or blow up an enemy building) that resets the penalty counter to 0.

Once your perk balance hits zero, of course, you may as well just keep dying because there's nothing to lose. OK ... so what if we then say you need at least 10 perks to be "authorized" to fly the La-7, P51D, etc. - they don't cost you anything to fly, but you need a minimum balance to be authorized by the crew chief to take his plane up. Now there's an incentive to maintain some level of survivability to be able to keep flying the uberplanes.

[DoKGonZo]

I remember the old AW tracking cons. They also made it easier to sneak up on folks cuz there wasn't that neon text to warn them.

[Karnak]

I wonder what the average player's perk bank looks like?

Never having been a 10 hours a day type of player I have a mere 1700 or so fighter perks.  Maintaining a certain minimum of perks is no problem at all for me.  In order for a reserve limit to have any effect on me it would either have to be prohibitively high or perks would have to get zeroed at the start of each tour.

[CAV]

What'd be interesting from a psychological angle is what effect this has given how rare it is to see perked planes to start with. You're basically removing points from something that most players rearely spend to begin with.  

What I was thinking was add more perk planes to the list, Ok maybe not down to just the 41/42 plane set being free, but a larger perk plane list. Also reset the points at the start of each campaign, or maybe when the map is won and reset. This way newbie and vets start the war with the same number of points to fight with...

CAVALRY

[The Fugitive]

Originally posted by AKFokerFoder+
I believe that if a game is coded to be played in a certain way, then you can (and should) play it that way.

...maybe, but HOin isn't going to make the game all that much more fun for ya because you'll stil get killed too often by them.

I'm not saying this to be a wiseguy, but it sounds to me its more about the way you fly than the HOs being a problem. I'm no "pro" by any means, but after flying here awhile I ran into a road block of sorts. I went at each fight  much the same way...same merge everything. Some times it worked, most times it didn't

The trick is trying different things. In an earlier post you said you merged and pulled up into a vert loop, and end up with another HO merge. What if as your pulling up into your loop you watch to see what the enemy is doing, see he's looping too, you break out of your loop and start a spiral climb under the enemy, causing him to tighten his loop burning more "E", or he never sees  it because he's blacked out pulling big G's to get around first.

...maybe you see he's following your maneuver in a loop, so you ease off the loop going for more alt letting your enemy pull a tighter loop, this giving you alt and most likely more "E". Continuing the fight from on top makes the fight yours.... unless you make a mistake  

Avoiding the HO isn't that tough... nose down and either left or right rudder 2k, at about 1k out roll a bit and rudder the other way. Minimum loss of "E", good chance to get out of the way, or pulling a lead turn from 5-6k out like Morph said giving them a quartering angle instead of head on.

Learning to avoid the HO in the end will make the game much more fun, and make you a better fighter. Don't go to the dark side and HO !!

[Sundowner]

As so many old sticks have so elagantly put it:

LEAD TURN        LEAD TURN        LEAD TURN

Try to manuever slightly lower vs dweeb1 as a HO attempt becomes apparent at  med range. (3-4k)
As he tries to get "guns on nose"  try to maintain 10-15deg offset vert/horiz plane with the bogy in the left quadrant.
Setup for a left turn at the merge, most single prop aircraft have a better roll rate left due to engine torque.  
Maintain nose offset down/right to deny the face shot.

Maintain speed control w/  throttle/pitch inputs.
You want to execute your lead turn at your aircraft's best cornering speed.
Planes "rate their nose" best at a unique speed for each type of aircraft.
"Rate" refers to degrees of turn rate per sec your nose moves in the turn.
You must know what your plane's best corner speed is  beforehand and execute your lead turn at that speed.
BTW, I hardly ever flat lead turn.
Slightly negative AOA helps maintain your energy thru the turn. (slightly pitch down)
If I can haul my nose around at 35deg/sec and the bogie is only pulling 30deg/sec then I am gaining angles that eventually will turn into a gun solution.

Rate kills.

 
When range ~=1.0K begin your best lead turn below him as he passes above.

Maintain visual in your views as he passes.
Ride the "blackout tunnel" thru the turn while maintaining best cornering speed.

Now the goal is to put your lift vector on his noggin. (Pure Pursuit)
Try to fly your gun sight to his aircraft while maintaining your best turn rate with throttle/wep.

After this it depends on what dweeb1 does.
You will have to adjust your turns (lead,pure,lag pursuit) based on how he defends in order to manuever to a guns solution.

Most of the time he has now expended the full measure of his ACM skills with his HO attempt and is now flying around with a big question mark over his cockpit wondering how you "cheated" and got around on his six so quick.

Also watch for him to try to lead turn at the merge.
If he does, he's not a dweeb.

Your in luck...your in for a fight.

Regards
Sun

[Shane]

what ^^^^^ said.

[Flayed1]

Originally posted by Karnak
I wonder what the average player's perk bank looks like?

Never having been a 10 hours a day type of player I have a mere 1700 or so fighter perks.  Maintaining a certain minimum of perks is no problem at all for me.  In order for a reserve limit to have any effect on me it would either have to be prohibitively high or perks would have to get zeroed at the start of each tour.

   I hardly ever fly perk planes, you will find me in A6M's FM2's YAK's and things of that sort and if I have to take up an LA it will be the 5 I can count on my fingers the times i've flown the LA7 in AH1 and AH2 combined.

  I find that yes the perk planes are fast but they arn't that fun for me, I like to manuver out of the way and suck people in untill I can get them slow enough and hang on their tail untill I get that killing shot with the few rounds I have in my early war ride and still have enough ammo to go for that #2 kill and even the 3rd one if I'm lucky. I have had some of the most heart pounding combat in these (low end planes) and love evry second of it.

  That said after loseing the 2 or 300 fighter perks last night from my 262 and tempest I now stand at 3685 fighter perks 4000 some odd bomber perks and 2000 some odd Vehicle perks..... Sad aint it.

[715]

Originally posted by Karnak
Why would you have the icons turned off?

I meant with the range info missing like you suggested in your post.  Obviously the icon needs to be there to tell friend from enemy.  I meant you need the range info as well to judge your situation (which is also what hitech said in his message which posted while I was editing mine).

[AKFokerFoder+]

Thanks for all the great replies

Especially Sundowner's detailed suggestion, and Fugitive.

I am lurking on the thread reading every word.

Good stuff.