Bf109K-4 with cannon pods: sources (part II)

[gatt]

Originally posted by gatt
BTW, Bruno, to see how good you are with the K-4 I took a look at your score (as Batz, is it right?) in the last TOD. But I cant find anything. I dont find almost any K/D above 1 for the entire 2005. Is it me or the score system not working?

Well, since you are re-teaching us theory and practice about dogfighting and buff hunting, about FM modelling and a/c behaviour ... where all this science come from? I had to go back to early 2003 to find a TOD where you flew. And looks like you havent ever touched a K-4. Please enlighten me.

[butch2k]

Originally posted by gatt
Butch,
with standardization I meant something easy to carry into AH as standard. The way much of the allied loadout are, so they are (or seem to me) easy to put in the AH2 hangar.

Sorry Gatt,

i'm not familiar with the AH way of handling the loadouts.

cheers,
Olivier

[gatt]

Ah Butch, I'm not familiar with the english language. This doesnt help me in hot threads, you know. Rereading my post I realized it was not so clear  

I just wanted to say that probably in AH is easier to design and implement allied loadouts. Actually very few discussions arise about them, I remember one about 2x12,7mm or 4x7,7mm on some Spitfires.

On the German side, the many 109's and 190's different types, engines and loadouts are probably more difficult to standardize and put in the AH hangar.

[Bruno]

Well, since you are re-teaching us theory and practice about dogfighting and buff hunting, about FM modelling and a/c behaviour ... where all this science come from? I had to go back to early 2003 to find a TOD where you flew. And looks like you havent ever touched a K-4. Please enlighten me.

I fly under a different nik now but I rarely play AH now.

Since you seem pre-occupied with me here's a bit of history:

My AH game niks were 'Wotan' and 'Batz'.  I began AH it tour 2 or so as Wotan. I flew the Ah betas but I don't recall my nik. I left AH after 3 years or so. I came back to AH as 'Batz' after a few months. I was asked and volunteered to CO the Niemen event but my work schedule prevented me from fulfilling my commitment. Fariz took over and I agreed to aid him as an 'XO'. As frame 1 began I started a new account as 'Batz'.

I was originally just going to help in that event and leave but was asked by another player and friend, Brady, if I would be interested in co-Co'ing another AH event 'Guadalcanal'. I did and kept the nik Batz. Once again I planned on leaving AH after that event. As is turned out I was then asked to Co another event 'Okinawa' and did so still flying as 'Batz'. After the Okinawa event I left AH but sometime later Brady and I designed the Kurland event. I returned to AH early to help out with the Ruhr event (I agreed to help with the Ruhr event to get CM experience for Kurland). After Ruhr and Kurland (Naso was the Axis Co for Kurland but his CPU got stolen after frame 2).

I left AH again came back for the AH2 betas. I emailed Skuzzy and got my old 'Wotan' nik back. I flew the first few tours after AH2 went gold. I came back again under a new nik for the last patch but rl has kept from 'playing much'.

I was also a CT CM for about year. I was Axis Co the first AH BoB event as 'Wotan'. I also am an admin for a private 'event style' FB/AEP/PF server. This server is invite only and runs staged events / scenarios. I also flew many other flight games going back many many years (from WBs to EAW ect...)

There should be no scores for either 'Wotan' and 'Batz' in 2005. I rarely ever fly in the main anymore and won't fly much of AH until ToD is released.  I only have 2 hours or so since the last patch, none in the K-4. I probably wont ever fly the K-4 since AH now has the G-14. The only K-4 sortie I flew was off line to check climb and speed. But don't pretend the 3cm on the K-4 with any different then 3cm on the G-10 or G-14 or the old G-6 for that matter, 3 cm is 3cm.

I am not giving 'theory' I am giving the facts. If you would rather just whine cry like women over 'gondolas' be my guest but these are issues that don't apply to everyone.

Your whole 'efficiency' whine is nothing but a mask for what Dan already pointed out:

the notion of gondolas on Fs or Ks has more to do with MA, kill em quick

Isn't it about time for you to start a brand new 'where's my gondolas' thread? After all this one is 2 days old...

[gatt]

Dont worry Batz/Wotan, I dont want to open a new thread. I think two are more than enuff for everybody and I'm probably going to get a warning from the moderator soon

I'm not worried about what others get, actually I was one of those who asked for new mid-late Spitfires even if I fly almost only 205s and 109s. I never said almost anything about so called uber allied planes. I'm worried only about when I loose a more complete fighters like the G-10 was.

What I find irritating is your way to define everybody as a whiner. Your way to teach how good are our 109 and 190 and how close they are to the real ones. You define everyone a luftwhiner, no matter what request or whine is concerned.

Above all your way to explain things looks very poorly backed up by recent (and not recent) MA experience. Your 2005 numbers speak for you. The Main is very different from 3-4 years ago. From many points of view. And dont tell us how good have you been shooting down 10 bombers in 4 frames when you were young, please spare us!

[Karnak]

I think there is absolutely no case for the gondolas on the Bf109F-4.  As I recall it is using a 1942 boost setting, so you already have an advantage over the Spitfire MK Vbs, Hurricane Mk IIcs and P-40Es that you really shouldn't.  Giving it the gondolas would add the advantage of greater firepower, other than the Hurri's, onto all the other advantages it already has.

You have a better case for gondolas on the Bf109K-4, but no case for a 20mm hub gun as no Bf109K-4 carried one.  At best you would have 20mm gondolas and a 30mm hub gun with wildly different ballistics.

[gatt]

Karnak,

the 109F pods are not an issue for me. IMO, it could be if we had a 1941 scenario with light RAF bombers raids to intercept. So, really, I dont care about it. Most players were used to it becouse our F-4 has been flying quite well with pods, so they probably miss it. I touched the argument only becouse I read the trials report and the final ok on them. I agree that during 1941 the 109F-4 and the C.202 (late 1941) are more then enuff to clash with the allied fighters.

K-4 pods are an issue, IMO. Becouse in late 1944-45 scenarios, and in our late war MA, we'd need something more than our 190A-8 to intercept bombers. Obviously HTC word will be the last, however I'm only trying to provide further evidence that those Rustsatze existed and probably mounted/dismounted by ground crew.

I agree with the no 20mm option in the nose and the problem represented by the 30mm in the nose and 20mm in the wing, since the path of the two different bullets is so different that it can be more a liability than an asset. But better than nothing ... AFAIK, even FW190A-8 pilots considered the MG151-20 and the Mk108 togheter a ballistic problem.

P.S.: I forgot to mention the G-14 issue. AFAIK his FM is under review and I hope it will be more rapresentative of a 1944 109 with a more powerful engine. This could alleviate or solve the K-4 pods issue. The 30mm K-4 is an exceptional dogfighter even if demanding, the updated G-14 could be the other hi alt interceptor we need.

[Bruno]

Originally posted by gatt
What I find irritating is your way to define everybody as a whiner. Your way to teach how good are our 109 and 190 and how close they are to the real ones. You define everyone a luftwhiner, no matter what request or whine is concerned.

I didn't define everyone as Luftwhiner, I fly only LW planes. The label only applies those like yourself who are actually whining. In your case about how hard it is for you to use the K-4 with out gondolas. What makes it whining is you feel the need to say it over and over again like a child wanting to be heard. Even if you were just whining about your own deficiencies with the 3cm I would have nothing to say. However, you apply you own experience universally to 'everyone'. Well there are a lot of '109 folks' who don't care about gondolas, who never use them and don't care if they are in game or not.

Above all your way to explain things looks very poorly backed up by recent (and not recent) MA experience. Your 2005 numbers speak for you. The Main is very different from 3-4 years ago. From many points of view. And dont tell us how good have you been shooting down 10 bombers in 4 frames when you were young, please spare us!

You don't know my 2005 'numbers' I haven't given you my current nik. Even so I don't fly much so there really aren't any numbers for me in 2005. Any numbers you see for 'Batz' or 'Wotan' in 2005 must be in error because I haven't flown under either of those names.

AH2 hasn't changed from the the early release in terms of gunnery, lethality etc... Hit resolution, icons under the plane etc... all came early. So in that sense the game hasn't changed at all in 2005.

[Bruno]

the updated G-14 could be the other hi alt interceptor we need

I am not sure what you mean by 'hig altitude inteceptor' but just for FYI the G-14s FTH is only 5000m (16400ft). Right now its about 20-25 mpg to slow at FTH. Even if and when it gets fixed all the 190s will be faster and have a higher FTH then the G-14 once you get above 16k. With gondolas it wil be a real pig 'up high' (like the G-6).

[Krusty]

"You're a whiner"

Why?

"Because I say you are"

Why?

"Because you're a whiner...."


circular argument.

BTW: People have been complaining about the MG151s and *especially* the 30mm since this game came out. It's been much worse since 2.0. I for one like the better gunnery model, but in 1.0 it was hard enough to land any hits with 30mm, in 2.0 it's nearly impossible.

[Karnak]

Gatt,

The Bf109G-14 will hopefully get reviewed and changed, but it will not be what you want it to be even then.  It's FT altitude is only 5000m (16,400ft) above which it rapidly declines to standard Bf109G-6 performance.  The problem is that currently it only does 397mph at 5000m when it should do ~415mph at 5000m.  This is the biggest of the issues I'd like to see addressed (the other two being the Spit VIII's poor roll rate and the black outline around Spits at medium distances).

[Krusty]

From what I understand Karnak the spit8 rolled slower than other models.

The black outline thing -- we need screenshot proof. I never get a good look at spits when I'm fighting them (too busy flying/shooting to look)

[gatt]

Bruno,

please stop using terms like whiner, women, mask, child and so on. Its very tempting for me to say you are so full of it that you will explode soon.

Believe me, my patience has limits. You may have different personalities, Batz, Wotan, Cheerleader, onlygodknowswhat .... the only thing that is sure is that you dont know squat what the MA is now. How new Spitfires changed the dogfight at medium-low level and how (probably) changed gunnery since 2003.

EDIT: whos the dweeb Batz flying in 2005? Did someone steal one of your enflated personalities?

[Karnak]

Krusty,

Nobody has posted any info backing that up.  If it is true, then the Mk XIV needs to have it's roll rate reduced as they have the same ailerons.  Angus posted something about the hinges being changed to give the Spit VIII faster aileron response, but he didn't give a source on his data.

[Angus]

Ehhh, Bruno:
"I didn't define everyone as Luftwhiner, I fly only LW planes"

You should really try the whole planeset. I recommend the C2 and the Spit VIII as well as the FM2 and the Il-2.
Anyway, it brings you to a balance to try all aircraft, and gives you a lesson how to fight them.
1 vs 1. co alt at any alt there is a tough going to beat the Spit VIII. You won't find out unless you fly one.
The C2 is a surprize, a nimble aircraft, very fast in dive and keeps maneuverability at high speed.
The FM2 is a killer in the right hands
The Il2 is underestimated and has some phenomenal qualities.....