Author Topic: HO bubble  (Read 6420 times)

Offline Karnak

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HO bubble
« Reply #60 on: November 29, 2005, 10:34:22 AM »
HOs are easy as pie to avoid.  What I mess up is what comes after I dodge the HO.  :lol

nazgulAX,

Sometimes HO's just happen in the middle of a dogfight.  I remember a fight, long, long ago, between me in an A6M5b and an F4U-1C.  After fighting for position for a bit we came out of our respective turns at about 600 yards, facing eachother directly and neither of us had enough speed to get out of the way if we tried to dodge.  We did the only thing that we could, the HO and I certainly don't make it a habit to HO F4U-1Cs when I am flying A6Ms.  We both hit eachother, but he only got my oil, I got his engine.

There seems to be a misnomer that real life WWII pilots never HOed and that is simply not true.  Some pilots used it as SOP.

Still, if I think I have any chance to win without the HO, I will avoid the HO.  But if I am flying a Mossie and you come at me in an La-7, Spit XVI or what have you and offer me an HO, damn right I'll take it, it is my best shot for living.  If I am flying a Spit VIII or Ki-84 I will always avoid the HO, barring a situation like I was in agaist that F4U-1C.

DoKGonZo,

AW pilots are more likely to, by force of habit, HO themselves by  flying straight at the enemy.  AW taught them that was a good idea as it protected them from harm.  AH players ruthlessly exploited that bad habit by shooting them in the face when they did it.

Then they come here and complain about it.
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Offline Shane

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HO bubble
« Reply #61 on: November 29, 2005, 10:46:23 AM »
anyone wHO's been in this game longer than 6 months shouldn't whine about HOs - instead they should lament the lack of overall cluelessness about ACM, including their own.
Surrounded by suck and underwhelmed with mediocrity.
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Offline T0J0

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HO bubble
« Reply #62 on: November 29, 2005, 10:57:28 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Wilbus
So start practicing and stop trying to change AH into AW.

 


I never mentioned AW at all in my last several posts that I remember...
I did mention how the "HO" is the only tactic used by 99% of the community %100 of the time..  Sure a few of you top %1 are so superior in your skill set to never get killed by the "HO"  me for one dont have 12 hours a day to practice HO survival skills.. I would prefer an alternate AH universe where a HO bubble
was introduced where I could log in on Friday nights for several hours slam a few beers down, relax, forget about the work week, and yuk it up with the squad... and not have to deal with a 1 second "HO" shot killing my 20 minutes of flight time every single flight the only day of the week I can logon...
 I would also take a wild shot that there are more players that share my belief then there are of you few %1 percenters who live by the "HO" and pretend that your opinion is gospel and to think differnetly is in some way an attribute of weakness.
Just an OP of course...

TJ

Offline Guppy35

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HO bubble
« Reply #63 on: November 29, 2005, 11:01:42 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by jaxxo
Well i must say i find them very very annoying...not so much in that they are hard to dodge but in that just about every fight I get in my opponents go for head ons...this is fine accept that im usually fighting 2 or more who still insist on using the ho. If im forced to merge in any kind of nose to nose pass I can be assured of massive amounts of nose jerking cannon spray from my oponents..gamey and weak..jmo


That's it in a nutshell.  That and how often in a one on one merge the guy takes the HO and runs on past to try and get to the airfield to vulch instead of fighting the guy in the air.

Gotta get those points and perks ya know:rolleyes:
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Offline NoBaddy

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HO bubble
« Reply #64 on: November 29, 2005, 11:03:25 AM »
Hit bubble...

The AW hit bubble was a bubble that went from nose to tail and wingtip to wingtip. Hit the bubble and you got a hit on the plane. Each plane had a pre-determined amount of damage it could take. When the damage points were gone, the plane blew up. In AW, the bubble had little impact on headons. AH's method is miles ahead.

Headons in AW...

Headons in AW were handled with a randomizer. Each headon hit was randomly checked to see if it was a hit, the randomizer was set at 10% (1 hit registered out of 10 hits made). After BB took over, planes with centerline guns (109s and 38s) were given a 'bonus' to the randomizer. This made headons from them extra lethal.

Headons in AH...

The gunnery in AH is attempting to be a 'reality' based model. That, in large part, is what makes it so much better than the model in AW (Dok..remember the 'laser' gunnery in AW :)). The reason that headons are so lethal in AH is the unrealistic way in which players use the model. Think about it, in the real world, how many people would want to play chicken in a airplane with closure rates of 700 to 800 mph?

I can tell you what Dale would say (because I've asked him :D), the gunnery is realistically modeled...it's not his fault if players insist on using it in an unrealistic manner.

With all of the 'new' guys trying out the K4's, I have seen more headons that ever, lately. While I understand the difficulty in learning to deflection shoot in a 109, it find it sad that so many don't bother to try to learn.
« Last Edit: November 29, 2005, 11:08:34 AM by NoBaddy »
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Offline Shane

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HO bubble
« Reply #65 on: November 29, 2005, 11:04:37 AM »
T0j0:

well, if you're too lazy to simply roll out of the way of a HO...

maybe you'd be better served on fri nights by simply staying in the tower, or using /.join and ride with one of your squaddies so you can "yuk it up."

i can only pretend to sympathize with the fact that some lamer HO-dweeb screws up what is obviously gonna be a great vulch-auger fest at the base your squad is inbound to.
« Last Edit: November 29, 2005, 11:14:46 AM by Shane »
Surrounded by suck and underwhelmed with mediocrity.
I'm always right, it just takes some poepl longer to come to that realization than others.
I'm not perfect, but I am closer to it than you are.
"...vox populi, vox dei..."  ~Alcuin ca. 798
Truth doesn't need exaggeration.

Offline Wilbus

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HO bubble
« Reply #66 on: November 29, 2005, 11:10:03 AM »
Well if you think you need, or if you really need (for real) 12 hours a day to learn how to dodge a HO maybe you'd be better off in a ground veichle or a bomber.

I don't really know nor care how high the % is and who cares about what. I dare say most people who have been with AH or WB instead of AW want it the way it is. AW was arcadish in many aspects.

Quote
I would also take a wild shot that there are more players that share my belief then there are of you few %1 percenters who live by the "HO" and pretend that your opinion is gospel and to think differnetly is in some way an attribute of weakness.


Well I am not one of those "1 percenters" as I pretty much always avoid the HO (that doesn't mean I don't take front quarter shots if there is no risc involved with it).

Lastly. To think different, is an attribute of weakness.
Rasmus "Wilbus" Mattsson

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Offline SlapShot

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HO bubble
« Reply #67 on: November 29, 2005, 11:21:46 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Shane
T0j0:

well, if you're too lazy to simply roll out of the way of a HO...

maybe you'd be better served on fri nights by simply staying in the tower, or using /.join and ride with one of your squaddies so you can "yuk it up."

i can only pretend to sympathize with the fact that some lamer HO-dweeb screws up what is obviously gonna be a great vulch-auger fest at the base your squad is inbound to.


 :aok ... PERFECT !!!
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Offline Fencer51

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HO bubble
« Reply #68 on: November 29, 2005, 11:33:23 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Ghosth

AW is gone, AW is dead, AW will not return.
 


:cry
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The names of the innocent and the guilty have not been changed.
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Offline Dead Man Flying

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HO bubble
« Reply #69 on: November 29, 2005, 11:58:01 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by T0J0
I would also take a wild shot that there are more players that share my belief then there are of you few %1 percenters who live by the "HO" and pretend that your opinion is gospel and to think differnetly is in some way an attribute of weakness.


I would take a wild shot that you are wrong about more players sharing your belief.  If 99% of the players HO 100% of the time, then why would 99% of the players want to remove their most succesful tactic?

In any event, you are becoming far too defensive here.  I have repeatedly stated that avoiding the HO does not require some magical "skill" unachievable by others.  You just need to know how to do it, and that takes some practice.  That doesn't mean a lot of practice, but you will have to put in a little effort here.  In the time you've spent bellyaching about HOs, you could have spent instead reading about how to avoid them, or you could have spent it in the TA actually practicing avoiding them.  I bet one good evening with Widewing or another trainer in the TA would have you good to go and would greatly increase your enjoyment of the game.

Please stop trying to turn this into an elitist vs. normal guy thing.  It's not.  

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Offline Krusty

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HO bubble
« Reply #70 on: November 29, 2005, 11:59:25 AM »
Hell, I learned to avoid the HO after little effort, and I suck as a pilot! "If I can do it, you can too! Ask me how!"

Offline AKFokerFoder+

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HO bubble
« Reply #71 on: November 29, 2005, 12:03:34 PM »
It seems then that in AH ACM means:

Avoid the HO on the first merge, go vertical, build up you aerial maneuvering skills to the point where you can be the first one to get your nose around and HO the other guy on the next pass without him being able to bring his guns to bear on you.

Either that or loop your LA7 around at the top fast enough to ho the guy on your six who is almost stalling in a less powerful and less maneuverable plane.

Thus things like split S, scissors, Thatch Weaves etc are things best left to other flight sims.  

This is my first WW2 sim.  In the 2 previous flight sims I flew in were WW1.  There it was about energy management, angles, and working your way unto the guys six until you could shoot out his wing, or his engine with sustained fire.   One shot kills were the exception.

So it really is HO or be HO’d, I can learn live with that. :)

I usually live by just blowing past the bogey on the first merge, avoiding his HO, stay fast, and don’t reengage for the second HO pass.  Stay high, and look for cherry picks.

Offline Karnak

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HO bubble
« Reply #72 on: November 29, 2005, 12:10:49 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by AKFokerFoder+
It seems then that in AH ACM means:

Avoid the HO on the first merge, go vertical, build up you aerial maneuvering skills to the point where you can be the first one to get your nose around and HO the other guy on the next pass without him being able to bring his guns to bear on you.

That is not an HO.  If the other guy cannot get a gun solution on you it cannot be considered an HO.

Quote
Either that or loop your LA7 around at the top fast enough to ho the guy on your six who is almost stalling in a less powerful and less maneuverable plane.

That is just poor planning on the rope.  Why give the guy a shot when you can wait for him to stall and then shoot him in the ass?

Quote
Thus things like split S, scissors, Thatch Weaves etc are things best left to other flight sims.

I dunno, I see them all the time.

Quote
This is my first WW2 sim.  In the 2 previous flight sims I flew in were WW1.  There it was about energy management, angles, and working your way unto the guys six until you could shoot out his wing, or his engine with sustained fire.   One shot kills were the exception.

So it really is HO or be HO’d, I can learn live with that. :)

I usually live by just blowing past the bogey on the first merge, avoiding his HO, stay fast, and don’t reengage for the second HO pass.  Stay high, and look for cherry picks.

You seem to be puting anything vaguely frontal into the HO category.  That is a common error.
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Offline Krusty

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HO bubble
« Reply #73 on: November 29, 2005, 12:13:02 PM »
"and HO the other guy on the next pass without him being able to bring his guns to bear on you."

That's not a HO. That's a top-down deflection shot. I see people go for that a lot. There are some ways around it, other ways don't work too hot. But that's not a HO.

P.S. If you keep seeing the same end result of the merge, merge in a different way. Instead of pulling tight zoom straight up and keep going, try to time it so that the other person is pulling tight and you can loop back on them once they've nosed over. This is dangerous because sometimes they can reposition and fire on you as you go up, but has worked a few times for me.

Offline Dead Man Flying

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HO bubble
« Reply #74 on: November 29, 2005, 12:13:11 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by AKFokerFoder+
Thus things like split S, scissors, Thatch Weaves etc are things best left to other flight sims.


Bad example there.  The Thach Weave sets up a purposeful front quarter shot for the unengaged wingman.  Thus AH actually allows the proper execution of this maneuver as opposed to AW, where the HO "shield" would have rendered it largely ineffective.

-- Todd/Leviathn