A Marine's Last Words

[midnight Target]

Originally posted by Seagoon
"Great men are never really complicated. The complicated people are the weak ones, beset by dozens of conflicting causes and motives, never quite knowing how to get it all together. The see one side of the issue, but they also see the other side. They see the advantage of one course of action, but they recognize that it might be better to do something else. Great men are not like this. They are not naive. They know that issues are sometimes complicated and that there are often different paths that can be taken, but they see the important cause and the best path and then follow it consistently."

This quote is just..... well..... stupid.

Kinda reminds me of those folks who try to sell you on the Amway pyramid. They always say " educated folks never seem to do well at this business". LOL...
Yea Great men are stupid blundering oafs who don't need to consider the possibilities of their actions.... funny.






PS... Stringer is definitely becoming a lefty.

[VOR]

Originally posted by Staga
Hiostory is full of people like that; some thought their country needed Lebensraum and some thought communism was the way to the better future.

Stop saying "Lebensraum". You sound like a broken record.

Nash: I think you're using this death as a rallying cry just as strongly as the other side.

You people are playing tug-o-war with a dead man, and it isn't the first time.

[Seagoon]

Hello Nash,

Congratulations on parroting the New York Times line that depressed, saddened, angered, and shocked Starr's family and friends and produced a flood of outraged responses. If you read the original story and the full note, you'll realize that Starr, his family, and his girlfriend fully supported American involvement in Iraq. In fact, here is part of his girlfriend's reaction to the NY Times spin on the letter she released:

The girlfriend of a Marine killed in Iraq said she was devastated when she saw how The New York Times cherry-picked a letter her "first love" intended her to read in case he died.

"It was sad that we had to go through this some more. I was upset about what they took out of that letter," said an emotional Emmylyn Anonical, 22, whose boyfriend Cpl. Jeffrey Starr died in Iraq earlier this year.

In her first public comments since the letter scandal erupted, Anonical told The Post that going public with the private letter was one of the hardest decisions of her life.

Seeing it used by The Times to misrepresent her boyfriend's beliefs about the war stung deeply, she said.

"The reason I chose to share that letter was the paragraph about why he was doing this, not the part about him expecting to die. It hurt, it really hurt," she said by phone from Seattle.  


(Starr and Emmylyn)

Nash, I work with every day with guys who have done multiple tours in Afghanistan and Iraq. A few of the younger guys have been really shaken up by the agit prop that goes on in the media and have left, but by and large, despite the red tape, the heartache, and the lack of support from the intelligentsia and media at home, they are committed to seeing a functioning democracy established and as many Jihadis as possible sent to their final reward. I can honestly say that their greatest fear is not that they will be defeated by the IEDs and the RPGs but the NYTs and the LATs.

They are not afraid of that scenario merely because it will make the sacrifices of all the Jeffrey's and Emmeline's hollow, but because they know the enemy and they realize he will not stop merely because we have handed him one of his immediate objectives.

- SEAGOON

[midnight Target]

Enough already!

The troops are the salt of the Earth and heroic in their commitment to duty and to the Nation... PERIOD!

The war in Iraq was a stupid blunder by a stupid president that has diminished us as a nation.....

These 2 statements are NOT mutually exclusive.

[Flit]

Originally posted by Stringer
Help me out here....What was the reason for invading Iraq?

How is this comparable to Omaha Beach?

I don't like it when flag waving is used to distract us and intended to take  our eye of the ball.  It diminishes the sacrifices that were made and my own patriotism as well.  Plus it insults my intelligence.

Fundamental Islam is not the greatest threat to this country.  If you think it is, you are buying it hook, line, and sinker.

It's always about the money, and economic powress has and will be what makes a super power.  It is that which enables us to project our will, including using our military, or mis-using them as the case might be.

 Um,this just in.
 The Fundamental Muslim's  are'nt worried about just the U.S.
 They want to subjugate the entire world.
 Do you want your grandkids facing east and praying 5 times a day ?

[AKS\/\/ulfe]

Either side using someone who has fallen as a symbol for their cause is disguisting to say the least.
-SW

[Stringer]

Uhmmm...this just in, is the person responsible for those attacks in custody?

[midnight Target]

Originally posted by Flit

 Do you want your grandkids facing east and praying 5 times a day ?

Do you want your grandkids to have the right to choose to face east and pray 5 times a day without being branded as a traitor?

[Eagler]

Originally posted by midnight Target
The war in Iraq was a stupid blunder by a stupid president that has diminished us as a nation.....

says who - other than the left? the same left that for years before 2000 & beyond were screaming for us to do the same identical thing...

who is to say what might have happened if we were not fighting in Iraq?

I and many others I have spoken with feel Iraq was the right war, at the right time at the right place ... so sorry we didn't find you a nuke sitting on a launch pad pointing at DC, so sorry it hasn't wrapped up nice and neat like the latest episode of of your fav 30 minute sitcom

the men & women dying over there are dying for noble and just cause. to spin it otherwise is spitting on their graves IMO. The dems want control back so bad, they are willing to belittle everyone and everything that is right & good in this country to get it...

[midnight Target]

Originally posted by Eagler
says who - other than the left? the same left that for years before 2000 & beyond were screaming for us to do the same identical thing...

who is to say what might have happened if we were not fighting in Iraq?

I and many others I have spoken with feel Iraq was the right war, at the right time at the right place ... so sorry we didn't find you a nuke sitting on a launch pad pointing at DC, so sorry it hasn't wrapped up nice and neat like the latest episode of of your fav 30 minute sitcom

the men & women dying over there are dying for noble and just cause. to spin it otherwise is spitting on their graves IMO. The dems want control back so bad, they are willing to belittle everyone and everything that is right & good in this country to get it...

Both of my statements (you only quoted one of them) were matters of opinion. People can disagree all they want. The point was, that people can hold both of those opinions.

[Seagoon]

Hi Wulfe,

Originally posted by AKS\/\/ulfe
Either side using someone who has fallen as a symbol for their cause is disguisting to say the least.
-SW

Not if that person intended for their sacrifice to advance a specific cause. Regardless of what you or others feel about the struggle in Iraq, Jeff Starr clearly saw dying there as something noble and was willing to do so in order to advance the light of freedom:

"It may seem confusing why we are in Iraq, it's not to me. I'm here helping these people, so that they can live the way we live. Not have to worry about tyrants or vicious dictators. To do what they want with their lives. To me that is why I died. Others have died for my freedom, now this is my mark."

In essence, Starr said "I am willing to die so that others might live in freedom" and proved that by laying down his life. American patriots like Nathan Hale whose last words were "I regret that I have but one life to give to my country" were equally willing to die, that their death might inspire others to continue their struggle. This has long been the aim of men dying for what they believed to be a noble cause.

For instance, Hugh Latimer, who was sent to the stake by Bloody Queen Mary for his protestant beliefs said to his fellow Martyr Nicholas Ridley as they lit the bundles of wood beneath their feet: "Be of good cheer, Ridley; and play the man. We shall this day, by God's grace, light up such a candle in England, as I trust, will never be put out."

You see, when the NYT attempts to spin the words of Jeff Starr to make them fit its anti-war agenda that is dishonest and yes perhaps even "disgusting" because they clearly understood that Starr supported American involvement in Iraq and selectively edited to obscure that fact. When others, however, proclaim what Starr himself believed and clearly and unambiguously said he was dying for, that is in accordance with his own desires.

The problem is that there are many people here in the USA who are against what Starr supported, but they sense that saying "I don't care what Jeff Starr believed, he may have been a good soldier, but he was wrong" will have a negative resonance to say the least, so they attack the use of his own words as illegitimate. I do wish that more people would simply be willing to say, "Americans - be they citizens or troops - who support the intervention in Iraq are just as wrong as the politicians who support it!", and draw the line where it actually is.  

- SEAGOON

[AKS\/\/ulfe]

Excuse it anyway you like, using the dead to rally together behind a cause is disgusting.
-SW

[Sakai]

Originally posted by Gunslinger
OK I'll write that down:

Liberal rules:

221.  Bush is not allowed to use the deaths of our nations heros, even if they were patriotic and inspirational, in a patriotic and inspirational speech.
222.  It is perfectly acceptable for Canadians to do very little to help out with the security of the world and fight against Islamo facism while criticising others for not helping out the security of the world and the fight against Islamo facism.  

log updated nash....happy spitting.

Hey, didn't we kill a group of Canadian snipers in Afghanistan, where the actual fight was?


Sakai

[Stringer]

Originally posted by midnight Target





PS... Stringer is definitely becoming a lefty.

Your continued attempts to out me will not work!!  

[Stringer]

I am an American who is disgusted at the waste of human life in a conflict that was initiated on manipulated information that was dissemented as the reason for putting our best and brightest in a situation to be killed.

I'll have no labels placed upon me.  Our President screwed this up in my view, period, end of story.

He said Iraq was an immediate threat due to it's possesion of WMD's and that is why we invaded.   No WMD's, No slack due him.

I have no problem projecting our military power.  But the President had better be right when he does it, and in this case he wasn't.

For the record, I voted for him in 2000 and wrote in Powell in 2004.

Hiding behind Archie Bunker flag waving is disgusting.