why we will win in iraq

[DREDIOCK]

Originally posted by Charon
Citing Paul Wolfowitz doesn't do an awful lot to support Iraq as part of a "global war on terror." Wolfowitz supported regime change in Iraq long before 9/11 for other reasons (see the Project for the New American Century), wanted to pin 9/11 on Iraq on 9/12 to further his goals (didn't want to hear about no Al Queda) and has largely been discredited and dumped when his rosy scenario for remaking the middle East through some democracy domino effect fell flat.

He was able to achieve his ultimate goal though, using 9/11 and the GWOT to lever action that would have been a much tougher sell otherwise.

Charon

for that matter I also supported regime change in Iraq long beore 9/11 for other reasons.

But he wasnt the only one  that I quoted to make my point

[Gunslinger]

Originally posted by DREDIOCK
for that matter I also supported regime change in Iraq long beore 9/11 for other reasons.

But he wasnt the only one  that I quoted to make my point

for that case the US govt supported it itself 3 years before 9/11 (SEE: Iraqi liberation act of 1998)

[RedTop]

If you were to put the stupidity of the terrorists in Iraq up against the stupidity of the left wing liberal retreaters in america who do you think would win?

Barbara Boxer? Ted Kennedy? Nancy Pelosi? John Kerry?

or

Mahat Macoat? Ma Shoes? Abdullah CamelHump? Allah Musthavebeengay?


Tough call there

[fartwinkle]

Originally posted by john9001


sheehan needs to go to iraq to protest the killing of iraqs by the terrorists.

Seeing as she lost a son in this war I believe she has a right to invoke her right to protest!

You on the other hand have invested what in this war?

[DREDIOCK]

Originally posted by RedTop
Barbara Boxer? Ted Kennedy? Nancy Pelosi? John Kerry?

or

Mahat Macoat? Ma Shoes? Abdullah CamelHump? Allah Musthavebeengay?


Tough call there

Depends if any of em are dumb enough to get into Teds car and let him drive;)

[Sixpence]

Originally posted by DREDIOCK
And how have things changed?
It was never about just getting Bin Laden.

Oh yes it was, very much so. That is why we went to afghanistan first, to get bin laden

[Yeager]

there is a much larger picture than you are seeing sixpence......

9/11 goes a lot deeper than bin laden.

in any event OBL is most likely dead.  It doesnt matter.

[DREDIOCK]

Originally posted by Sixpence
Oh yes it was, very much so. That is why we went to afghanistan first, to get bin laden

But Bin Laden is only part of the picture. and a part of the goal.

Again since you seem to have missed it...

"Our war on terror begins with al Qaeda, but it does not end there. It will not end until every terrorist group of global reach has been found, stopped and defeated" Sept 2001

"And we will pursue nations that provide aid or safe haven to terrorism. Every nation, in every region, now has a decision to make. Either you are with us, or you are with the terrorists. (Applause.) From this day forward, any nation that continues to harbor or support terrorism will be regarded by the United States as a hostile regime. "


Bust address to joint session of Congress and the American people Sept 20,2001 (this link works)

[Seagoon]

Hi Boroda,

Originally posted by Boroda
Hmm.

It seems that Chechens have broader views. At least they had Western journalists and non-Islamic mercenaries fighting together with them. And some countries like Poland support Chechen murderers as if it's Polish national sport.

Regarding the Chechens, admittedly the Western democracies have done a lot of stupid things. They chose to frame that conflict entirely in political terms and naturally took the side of the third world "underdog" against the big ole mean former superpower. I don't think it was really until the massacre of hundreds of schoolchildren in Beslan by Chechen jihadis that the world finally realized - "Hey these guys are part of the worldwide Islamic revival and jihad movement as well. Whoops." But by that time it was much too late, and the Chechens are now helpfully providing groups like Al Qaeda with caucasian looking Jihadis who are much better at penetrating our security.

The same mistakes were made in Kosovo, we smashed the facts flat, put the white hat on the Kosovars and the black hat on Serbians and bombed the Serbs until they capitulated, and withdrew their forces, leaving the ethnic Serbs in Kosovo to the tender mercies of the ethnic Albanians. Now of course Al Qaeda is opperating in Kosovo as well, and we've ended "attacks on ethnic Albanians" by making it safe to ethnically cleanse the ethnic Serbs from Kosovo. Now the Mosques are safe and the churches are being burned.

Until we realize that this really is a global conflict, that it is far more than simply "political" and that there is no middle ground in it between victory and defeat, this kind of silliness is going to go on endlessly with various Western administrations occasionally backing the very people who are going to be killing them next. So, yes, its time we crumpled up the cold-war era political template and threw it away. As much as the idea of being allies with the Russians on anything appalls some in the West, I can't think of a better cause to be allied on than united resistance to the worldwide Jihad.

[Maverick]

So Seagon, your suggestion for ending the conflict is to simply build a huge wall around the combatant nations and let them fight it out. We then breach the wall and send in the street sweepers once the shooting has stopped for 3 weeks??

[bikekil]

Boroda,

I just deleted a text i wrote in a replay for your comment about Poles... why?
I realized that the more i write, the more you will deny Also i realized that i don’t; care about what Russians (or any other nation) think about Polish support for the Chechens, Ukraine (about a year ago) Iraq and any other place/nation.
I'm glad that we can speak freely... express our opinion as we want to and help whoever we want for any reason we have. It's better than before, when by many years we were Soviet slaves and have to speak what we were told by Soviets.
I won't say more about the Chechens, terrorists or whoever else... more that just this  - if i wanted to be free i would fight for it. If someone would rape my wife or my lil daughter i would kill him if a had a chance... i think you would do the same.. even if most likely you will deny right now

And that's actually it...

[Boroda]

To Seagoon: I agree with every word. What goes on now is a result of a dounle-standards policy that we discussed in another thread. For example: recently RF stopped supplying weapons to Afghanistan. Noone in the West noticed that since 2001 Russia was sending armour and other Soviet weapons to Afghan for free, the weapons that Northern Alliance and other groups of anti-Taliban fighters requested. What we get in responce? I'll tell you: US forcing Russian and Commonwealth border-guards to withdraw from Afghan border. To remove the only force that stops drug traffic into Russia and Europe!

To Bikekil: It's sad, but it's a fact that Poland plays a significant role in Chechen terrorist support, I mean - government, not the people. They try to make us propaganda pawns, and they use a Western tradition of calling Russia the "mother of all evil". Soviet slavery - please think, what national debt Poland has now... If it was "slavery" (while I still wonder who was who's slave) - then maybe you just changed masters? You know my attitude to Russo-Polish relations: we'd better be friends, because forces who make us hate each other are our mutual enemies.

[straffo]

Originally posted by Gunslinger
yup just keep thinking that....who was it that was burning cars in france recently?  Christians?

If you have a source for this information please post it.

[straffo]

Originally posted by Boroda
Hmm.

It seems that Chechens have broader views. At least they had Western journalists and non-Islamic mercenaries fighting together with them. And some countries like Poland support Chechen murderers as if it's Polish national sport.

We all know how kind and gentle the Russian are with non-russian population after all the word  погром (pogrom) ils a well known polish word.

[deSelys]

Originally posted by straffo
If you have a source for this information please post it.

Don't be too harsh with the self-proclaimed world analysts. After all, their prediction about the burning cars being the first sign of a massive islamic uprising crumpled, the results of the Iraqi elections are taking an 'unexpected' turn... they going thru sour times right now.