Guns and Ammo + MG and 20mm smoke puffs test.

[Wilbus]

Originally posted by hitech
Wilbus: Ill do a break down of the film to see what bullets hit. But ill bet you just had an unlucky burst that falls at the outside of chances for damage.

HiTech

Actually HT I bet so too, and I really thought so from the beginning untill I checked the film carefully (whereafater I decided to make the post and check hits offline).  
It just ticked me off as there was no dammage what so ever for him, not even a tiny little flap


and Thanks!

[Wilbus]

HT any more info about the break down of the film? Would be interesting to know.

[Morpheus]

If I were a plane, I would want to have the hispano.

[mussie]

And they said size doesn't matter BAH!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Morpheus]

Originally posted by Wilbus
OH Btw, why the "IN teresting"?

because all the cool people do that.

[Morpheus]

Wil, in that film, you have all your guns firing. It looks like you did land 20mm hits, but also MG' hits can be seen. From my pov anyways.

[Krusty]

Originally posted by Morpheus


If I were a plane, I would want to have the hispano.

The MG151 round is the same size as the Hispano. The Hispano has a bit more powder behind the projectile however.

I believe somebody did an analysis of the MG151 (with mixed belt ammo, which AH doesn't seem to have) and it found that even with mixed belt ammo the MG151 was still as hard-hitting as hispanos. I believe the individual HE rounds do a little more damage than hipanos but they are averaged out by AP rounds (I think -- I'm going from memory here)

[Mime]

From flying AH I would say the MG 151s in AH are about 75%-80% as powerful as Hispanos on the Spitfire.

[Krusty]

I've had many single-ping hispano kills. It literally ONLY takes one ping on almost any aircraft (save the really tough ones like corsiar or f6f or p47) to rip a wing off. However I regularly have to hit 3+ rounds of MG151 on a wing to rip it off, so I'd say about 50% as strong (rough guess, going by experience)

[Wilbus]

Actually Morph look again, and look at the picture I posted, there were atleast 5x20mm hits and another 8-10 MG hits. Best way is to view his plane in slow motion and from the top to see most of the hits.

[Karnak]

In AH1 tests vs buildings showed the N1K2's Type 99 Model 2's to be 99% as destructive as Hispanos in AH.  The Ho-5 was at the low end of the 20mm cannon with 71% of the Hispano's power.  The MG151/20 was somewhere in the 85% or 80%. range as I recall.

As an example, I well remember landing 10 hits on an La-7 (the hits were individual hits over a period of time and easy to count) while flying a Typhoon and not one single thing broke on the La-7.

J_A_B and I tested Hispano hits a bit and found that these numbers were consitant from short range Hispano hits:

2 Hispano hits removes the tail of a P-51D.
2 Hispano hits removes the tail of a Bf110G-2
3 Hispano hits removes the tail of a Mosquito Mk VI.
14 Hispano hits removes the tail of a Lancaster Mk III.
17 Hispano hits removes the tail of a B-17G.

[Morpheus]

20 x 110 hispano
Average Velocity 880 m/sec (HEI)
20x110 Hispano generated 47-50,000 joules

Mauser MG 151/20 20 x 82
Average Velocity 710 m/sec (HEI)
20x82 MG 151 generated 29,000 joules

Japanese Ho-5 20 x 94
Average Velocity 730 m/sec (HEI)
The 20x94 only generated 29,000 joules, but it was severely downloaded because of the weak gun action caused by the use of low-grade steels.


It is a well known fact of the superiority held by the 20mm hispano in all aspects... In all aspects. In real life and in the game.

[mussie]

where did you get that data morph ?

Pretty spercific

[Wilbus]

There is an interesting thread about this (ta152 thread?) Morpheus, saying that the Minen shells actually packed more punch then either Hispano Mk II or V. Late war minen shells were even better.

Not sure which thread it is. The Mg151/20 minen shells packed a far better punch than the HE Shells of the Hispano. Granted the Hispano had better trajectory thanks to velocity but Mg151 did more dammage when it hit thanks to HE.

Acording to that thread atleast, will see if I can dig it up. Or does Karnak know? Think you are in that thread aswell.

Btw Morph, this thread really isn't about what gun should pack the most punch. What it is about is that no fighter should fly away unharmed after 5x20mm hits (and yes, there were atleast 5x20mm hits judging from smoke puffs). Still, I find it anoying that, after all those hits, he had no dammage, I lost my tail with 2 pings (and they even sounded like 50 cal but must have been 20mm).

I am not saying the Ho-5 should be more devestating then the Hispano, I am quite sure it shouldn't be, maybe not even close. I am just asking Hitech if he has done the "break down" of the film yet... I am just interestead in knowing wether my hit tests are accurate or not and wether this could have been some kind of Rubber bullet effect (drkBlue said he saw two holes in him, after 13-15 hits from my side).

[Karnak]

Moepheus,

Well, the Hispano did not have an advantage in all aspects.

It jammed more often than the MG151/20.  I don't know about the Ho-5, though the Ho-5 has a good reputation from what I hear.

It was significantly heavier than is desirable in a 20mm aircraft cannon.  That is a flaw the Browning Heavy Machinegun shared.

It's rate of fire was lower than the MG151/20 and much lower than the Ho-5.

It's ammunition was bulky in comparison, thus limiting the number of rounds able to be carried.


Wilbus,

Yes, the minen shells would do have about 30% more destructive power than a Hispano HE hit by Tony Williams numbers.  The place the Hispano would have shone is using AP ammo as a ground attack gun, but I;ve never seen evidence that the Hispano was used with AP ammo.