The .308 Battle Rifle, Why and Which One.

[Eden]

Originally posted by lazs2
I don't think any of you are wrong.   .308 will probly be a little more available than ought six but not enough to matter... You can buy surplus ought six still for around 20 cents a round and you can reload either 308 or ought six for about the same money... if you have reloading skills and can find .308 or ought six.... you can make one into the other (if you have the brass) in an emergency.   Imr 4198 can be loaded in an emergency by simply filling the case to the neck... close enough for an M1... fn's adjust.

I happen to have a very mint Garand so... I am getting familiar with it... it is, as you say... very accurate and probly the most battle proven of the bunch... it also is a real military weapon with forged parts that won't stretch or fail.   The 8 round clip is not as big a disadvantage as you may think... you don't have to remove the old clip/mag... it removes itself... all you got to do is ram home another one...  the clips weigh nothing and are compact so you can carry a lot of em..

I like it.... I like the M1a and  the hk even tho it destroys brass.. not that fond of the fal... spotty accuracy on the ones I shot...  but..

in the end... any one I pick up will do.. If I don't like it... I will use it to get one I do.

Never hurts to have a breakdown .22 rifle or pistol either tho.

lazs

What do you think of the Springfield Armory M-1s in .308?


http://www.springfield-armory.com/prod-rifles-m1-garand.shtml

[capt. apathy]

Originally posted by nirvana
 Are you paranoid or planning a resistance movement?

when people are out to get you,  paranoia is reasonable thinking.

[lazs2]

ok... I have 4 handguns in 44 mag but have no desire to have a rifle in one.  Most are only good with jacketed ammo so they don't really "interchange" with my lead bullet load 44 handguns... most are not that much more accurate (for me) than a good 44 handgun or much more powerful .... I wouldn't feel unarmed with one but..

 I would 100 times rather have a 444 marlin or better.... a 45-70 for big bullet cast slug rifle doomsday scenario.

the springfields.... woe onto some of the springfields... I have heard that they don't use forged recievers... I have heard that because of that... the recievers stretch.   stretch reciever=bad.   Maybe this is not true anymore but you want a forged reciever no matter what... nothing else is "just as good"

lazs

[GtoRA2]

Originally posted by Hangtime


Now.. I've got an M1 Garand in the works.. no finer battle rifle on the target range is available. It's accuracy is beyond reproach.. but the 8 round clip and increasing scaricty of ammo will relegate it to the status of being a much enjoyed piece of history.. much the same as my old bolt guns, exceptionaly accurate but outclassed in volume of fire and battlefield practicality by it's younger cousins the M-14 and the FAL. I'll have fun 'building' my CMP M1 this winter.. but there will be a ready to go FAL in the closet in the meantime.

 

You can have a M1 converted to .308 with a simple barrel change. I think Fulton Armory does it for under 200 bucks.

I plan on having mine rebuilt and refinished by them and having the barrel changed out to .308 when I get it back from the X.

[Hangtime]

Yup. Laz nailed it again. Pre-Ban used is the way to go with a M1A. (semi-auto M14) The new guns on the cast receivers are just not cuttin the mustard... there's problems with third market (not USGI) parts in them too.

Yep.. you can get .308 chambered garands.. but why? If it ain't shootin the 30-06 then sight calibration is off, there's feed problems... cripes, if yer baseline ammo pick is .308, hunt up a good pre-ban M1A instead.

But, if yah fancy the grande dame of all battle rifles, the Garand is the lady to pursue and CMP is the place to get it. A fine shooter, accurate, deadly, lordy; they don't come any more competent than the Garand. It's shortcomings on a modern battle field are few, only 8 rounds a clip and it's a mite heavy. On the range, without reloading, they are can be pricy to shoot if you shoot a LOT.

For me, every time I go to the range I'm personally chewing thru at least 150 rounds of big caliber.. when the kids come along (quite often now) we burn up 500 or more between us.. 30-06 is just too damned expensive for me to shoot on that scale. It don't mean I don't like it.. it's just I can shoot twice to three times as much .308 or 7.62x54r for the same money. Once I have the runts trained up fully on the bolties I'll revisit the issue.

[GtoRA2]

Originally posted by Eden
What do you think of the Springfield Armory M-1s in .308?


http://www.springfield-armory.com/prod-rifles-m1-garand.shtml

Check out the M1 Garand FAQ on this site...

Fulton Armory

I emailed him about the M1s from Springfield and he said the receivers they are using are not real good.

I would try and get a CMP on, even if the finish is gone you can have it refinished and tuned for far les then a new one from Springfield.

I want one of their M14 rifle but I think I am going to get another M1 myself.

[GtoRA2]

Originally posted by Hangtime
Yup. Laz nailed it again. Pre-Ban used is the way to go with a M1A. (semi-auto M14) The new guns on the cast receivers are just not cuttin the mustard... there's problems with third market (not USGI) parts in them too.

Yep.. you can get .308 chambered garands.. but why? If it ain't shootin the 30-06 then sight calibration is off, there's feed problems... cripes, if yer baseline ammo pick is .308, hunt up a good pre-ban M1A instead.

But, if yah fancy the grande dame of all battle rifles, the Garand is the lady to pursue and CMP is the place to get it. A fine shooter, accurate, deadly, lordy; they don't come any more competent than the Garand. It's shortcomings on a modern battle field are few, only 8 rounds a clip and it's a mite heavy. On the range, without reloading, they are can be pricy to shoot if you shoot a LOT.

For me, every time I go to the range I'm personally chewing thru at least 150 rounds of big caliber.. when the kids come along (quite often now) we burn up 500 or more between us.. 30-06 is just too damned expensive for me to shoot on that scale. It don't mean I don't like it.. it's just I can shoot twice to three times as much .308 or 7.62x54r for the same money. Once I have the runts trained up fully on the bolties I'll revisit the issue.

I am not expert by any means but I thought that .308 and 30-06 shot the same tell the round was past 500 yards so shouldnt the sites be fine?

I have heard mixed things on the feeding.

[StarOfAfrica2]

Originally posted by lazs2
ya know... I've been thinking of the lever action marlin 1895 trapper in stainless steel and 45-70 caliber...  I can make excellent slugs from cast wheel weights and scrap lead...  pick a powder that fills the case and it takes large rifle primers....  a good doomsday gun...

most people don't realize that it will also outpentrate .308 against say.... bulletproof glass...  the old gun will do 500 yards real easy and the lever is dead reliable.

Best excuse I've had in a long time to get a new gun.

lazs

Hehe, then you should check this out

http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot4.htm

I love reading this guy's penetration tests.  He really opened my eyes on a few things, but the .45-70 test at the end of this one ............ well, see for yourself.  Enjoy!  

[GtoRA2]

Originally posted by StarOfAfrica2
Hehe, then you should check this out

http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot4.htm

I love reading this guy's penetration tests.  He really opened my eyes on a few things, but the .45-70 test at the end of this one ............ well, see for yourself.  Enjoy!  

LOL LOL

Don't get in any gun fights with buffalo hunters. There ain't no such thing as cover.

[nirvana]

Can I join your militia Hang?  I'm not too bad of a shot with my BB gun

[Dago]

Originally posted by lazs2

the springfields.... woe onto some of the springfields... I have heard that they don't use forged recievers... I have heard that because of that... the recievers stretch.   stretch reciever=bad.   Maybe this is not true anymore but you want a forged reciever no matter what... nothing else is "just as good"

lazs

Lazs, please stop hanging around with old wives, they tend to tell tales.  


While a forged receiver is considered a better receiver, a quality cast receiver is still an excellant receiver.  Of course, if you think you are going to shoot in excess of 50,000 rounds from one rifle, it might start to become a concern.  Basically, if the receiver passes the Rockwell Hardness test, you will not stretch it and you will never know the differance cast or forged.

Have you ever known anyone who had a stretched receiver?  Me neither.   I haven't ever even heard of anyone actually having this problem, anywhere.  Maybe it has happened somewhere to someone, but I am not aware of it.

BTW, LRB Arms sells forged M14 rifles and Smith Enterprises is coming out with a forged one too, and I believe Fulton Armory may be thinking of doing it.  (M1A is a Springfield Armory trademark for their M14 semi-auto rifle)

I do get a kick out of those who talk about getting a bolt gun in place of a semi-auto for accuracy reasons.  It is an extremely rare shooter using custom handloads, a shooting bench and a target an awful long way who might be able to see a differance between a bolt gun and a quality semi-auto like a well prepped and setup M1A.

dago

[GtoRA2]

Dago
 Fulton is making their own Receivers now. Not sure if Cast or forged but I bet forged.

Check out their site you can buy a plain receiver, or a whole rifle from a stock looking M14 to ones with rails and pistol grips and look like they belong in a SCi Fi movie.


Damn I want one.....

[Maverick]

Overall most of the rifles talked about in the thread are good solid pieces of equipment and will get most any job you need taken care of.

I had thought about the "doomsday" option a few times and came to the conclusion that the best gun to have for the long term would be a lowly .22 with decent glass on it with a removable scope mount. My intent is not to be able to have a firefight. My intent is to be sneaky as hell, unspotted and able to take table meat with little noise and then fade into the woods again while giving little or no clue to where the shooting was done. A few bricks of .22 will give you more rounds than a case of any other round and be portable. If you have to scoot, whatever you can carry is what you are going to have. I'd grab a pistol in medium caliber and my best .22 and get outa dodge if I had to be in a hurry.

[Dago]

Originally posted by GtoRA2
Dago
 Fulton is making their own Receivers now. Not sure if Cast or forged but I bet forged.

Check out their site you can buy a plain receiver, or a whole rifle from a stock looking M14 to ones with rails and pistol grips and look like they belong in a SCi Fi movie.


Damn I want one.....

Plenty familiar with Fulton and their website.  Decent builder.

If and when I was going to buy another M1A,  it would be an LRB receiver.   I would probably go with a custom builder like Ted Smith or Warbird.  I do have a bunch of high end parts for the next one already, gotta get a barrel and receiver.  You can buy a barreled receiver from LRB for a custom build, or have them do it.  Next one is going to be setup for long range, 600yds +.  Will probably go with a Sadlak scope mount and Leupold Mark 4  10x 40mm scope.  Lots of details to the proper high end build, including cryogenic stress equilization.  All NM parts with steel bedding in a McMillian synthetic stock, 1 in 10" 4 groove chrome moly barrel.

dago

[Squire]

Hard to beat a .308 it has to be one of the finest rounds in the world. As for the FN Rifle, I used it in the Army back in the late 80s before Canada went to the C7 (M16A2). Its the finest rifle I have ever fired, accurate, comfortable, and easy to use. I would be happy anywhere with it. Well maintained it will last forever.

Friend of mine has an SKS in 7.62x39. Fine survival/bush rifle, if its well looked after, practically impossible to kill it. Easy to use.

.223s are fine for Spec Ops, but I think as a straight infantry weapon .308 is the way to go. All that stuff about carrying more ammo is all bunk, you want something that can kill at 600 yards and go through walls and bush. Armies are no different than Paris fashion designers, and "trends" just come along, .223 was the latest and greatest, so NATO went with it, back in the 50s men used to go everywhere with hats too, but that changed...