Author Topic: Foreign aircraft used in combat by the US  (Read 1269 times)

Offline zarkov

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Foreign aircraft used in combat by the US
« Reply #15 on: December 02, 2005, 10:29:39 PM »
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Originally posted by J_A_B
Thanks for the info Straffo, Zarkov.  My knowledge on the later-model Nieuports is shaky at best.

My comment that the Nieuports were "despised" doesn't mean overall, just in the context of their use by the US in 1918.  I've not read an account from a pilot who liked one, and generally the US pilots seemed much happier with their SPAD XIII's.   If this is a case of "inaccurate history", by all means correct me (I eat this stuff up).  

Overall, the various models of Nieuports definately deserve their place as some of the Allies' best fighters through the middle of the war.


J_A_B


J_A_B - you were certainly right about USAS pilots prefering the SPAD over the Nieuport 28 - however, I think the word "despised" is a bit strong.

The Nieuport 28 has the misfortune of being the step-child of the Nieuport line.  All the Nieuports up to and including the Nieuport 27 were fairly common in French and British squadrons; the British used the "early" model Nieuports until fairly late in the war and the French always had a few dispersed among their squadrons even after the SPAD VII and SPAD XIII became the standard fighter mainly because some pilots preferred the Nieuport due to its maneuverability - the SPADs, while very fast and durable, also tended to stall like bricks due to their very thin wings (think of them as a WWI-era Mustang or Focke-Wulf).  However, the Nieuport 28, wasn't adopted by either the French or the British (although I believe some examples were distributed among French squadrons) and it was pretty much pawned off on the Americans until SPAD XIII's were available to take their place.  However, despite their place in history as a stop-gap measure, they were fairly maneuverable (more maneuverable, certainly, than the SPAD...although that isn't saying much) but having the alarming tendency of shedding its wing fabric like all Nieuports.

With that being said, despite their weak wings, the Nieuports were fairly popular fighters, especially among the British.  And French ace Nungesser scored the majority of his kills in a Nieuport and continued to fly various models even when posted to SPAD squadrons (although he did eventually switch to the SPAD); however, to be honest, he was "unique" among French aces as the other top aces (Fonck, Guynemer, etc.) all seemed to prefer the SPAD over the Nieuport.

Offline Krusty

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Foreign aircraft used in combat by the US
« Reply #16 on: December 02, 2005, 11:12:49 PM »
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Originally posted by jollyFE
Krusty

I think the plane the Navy uses at TopGun is the Kifr, built in Isreal.


Jolly


I think you are right..I also think the Kfir is a mirage knock-off built without license... I could be wrong though.

Offline Tails

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« Reply #17 on: December 02, 2005, 11:18:15 PM »
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Originally posted by Krusty
I think you are right..I also think the Kfir is a mirage knock-off built without license... I could be wrong though.


Kfir is a Mirage V copy with canards and (I think) an American-made engine. Neat little plane regardless :aok

And the Navy's F-21 is a Kfir C2 if memory serves me correctly.
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Offline Slash27

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« Reply #18 on: December 03, 2005, 12:18:38 AM »
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Originally posted by Krusty
Depends on if you count Air America or not :P [EDIT: Wmaker beat me to it]

Don't forget the F-21 for the Navy (Licensed built Mirage I think, used for DACT).

From what I understand the spitVs with stars and bars weren't flown by americans. They just didn't want to get shot down by "us stupid yanks" :P


I know a unit in the MTO flew them before they recieved '51s. I dont recall who they were off hand.

Offline zarkov

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« Reply #19 on: December 03, 2005, 12:21:52 AM »
31st FG.

Offline straffo

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« Reply #20 on: December 03, 2005, 03:58:42 AM »
zarkov it's nice and rare to see someone having a good knowledge on this period of aviation :)

I dream of a WWI oline sim where I can fly like Nungesser (it mean kill a lot and crash a lot )

Offline zarkov

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« Reply #21 on: December 03, 2005, 05:06:48 AM »
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Originally posted by straffo
I dream of a WWI oline sim where I can fly like Nungesser (it mean kill a lot and crash a lot )


You also forgot about running wild around town between sorties on your crutches and seducing generals's mistresses and getting drunk and crashing (your car, not your airplane).

Offline hogenbor

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« Reply #22 on: December 03, 2005, 05:25:34 AM »
Some info on the Kfir:

http://www.israeli-weapons.com/weapons/aircraft/kfir/Kfir.html

Basically it's an evolution of the Mirage III/V series when France put an embargo on delivery of more V's. Built without a license agreement, American J-79 engine (like in the F4 Phantom), canards.

Offline straffo

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« Reply #23 on: December 03, 2005, 05:29:16 AM »
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Originally posted by zarkov
You also forgot about running wild around town between sorties on your crutches and seducing generals's mistresses and getting drunk and crashing (your car, not your airplane).


hehe it will the cherry on the cake :D

Offline Furball

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« Reply #24 on: December 03, 2005, 05:30:58 AM »
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Originally posted by hogenbor
Basically it's an evolution of the Mirage III/V series when France put an embargo on delivery of more V's. Built without a license agreement, American J-79 engine (like in the F4 Phantom), canards.


i have to say, i do love the Israeli "F-U" attitude.  they are just like a mini  america in a foul mood.
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Offline Rino

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« Reply #25 on: December 03, 2005, 05:52:55 AM »
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Originally posted by Karnak
Krusty,

At least some Spit Vs were flown by the USAAF.  I know our first squandron to get over there had trained on P-39s and arrived a couple of weeks before their P-39s did.  They were worried about going into combat against the Luftwaffe in them and much to their delight the British handed over a bunch of Spit Vs in reverse Lend-Lease and they never had to fly the P-39 against the Luftwaffe.

Thanks for the WWI data.  It is not my strong point, but it was a very interesting time period for military aviation.


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Offline mipoikel

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« Reply #26 on: December 03, 2005, 06:59:36 AM »


I am a spy!

Offline zarkov

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« Reply #27 on: December 03, 2005, 10:11:58 AM »
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Originally posted by Furball
i have to say, i do love the Israeli "F-U" attitude.  they are just like a mini  america in a foul mood.


You mean the average American drives as if his car is a lethal weapon and everyone on the street has been sleeping with his wife?

Offline zarkov

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« Reply #28 on: December 03, 2005, 11:31:58 AM »
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Originally posted by straffo
hehe it will the cherry on the cake :D


I'm not buying any WWI flight simulator unless it allows you to land next to the German two-seater you've shot down, personally capture the crew and then take them to a brasserie in Paris and drink lots of good plonk with them until everyone is good and drunk and then drive off the French military police that come to take the Germans into custody with some drunkenly aimed pistol fire.

THAT is my dream sim.

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Foreign aircraft used in combat by the US
« Reply #29 on: December 03, 2005, 11:49:22 AM »
DeHavilland DH-4 with the liberty engine as well