Author Topic: a puzzle (Read 1360 times)

easymo · « **on:** September 28, 2001, 02:54:00 PM »

I have a puzzle for you guys. For me it is the essence of war. This is not a made up question. It is based on a real life experience. This is not the sort of puzzle you have to solve playing AH, or in your day to day lives, thank God. They only ask questions like this on the other side of the gates of hell. Thats that structure up ahead our troops are headed for.

My NCOIC was killed when a 5 year old walked up to his jeep and dropped a frag into it. A couple of G.I.'s where on the other side of the street. They did have time to shoot the boy. But, all they did was try to shout a warning.

The puzzle. What would you have done? Would you have shot the little guy? Or would you let your sergeant die?

Now, if this were a Hollywood movie. Some draft ducker like Sylvester Stallon would wip out his kung fu knife and throw it across the street. Magically knocking the frag out of the boys hand. No magic here, you have to make a real choice.

Before you answer, remember, there is some salamander out there that is ruthless enough to put that frag in that babys hand. And he knows the boy is going to be killed when the thing goes off. (the kid just stood there after he dropped it in).

I know what the WW2 guys would have done. Its what they did. They were every bit as ruthless as the enemy, and even more efficient at killing. They won as a result.

So there is the puzzle. Would you

capt. apathy · « **Reply #1 on:** September 28, 2001, 03:01:00 PM »

well, i guess i'd have to shoot him. and probly never sleep through a whole night again. in real life war sucks

Serapis · « **Reply #2 on:** September 28, 2001, 03:30:00 PM »

That's a real life version of the deuce-and a-half on the mountain road with troops in back, and the little girl steps out in the street.

I would hope my training would take over and I would pull the trigger. However, I probably would have acted like the GI's at the scene. Sitting around shooting the toejam without enough time to overcome the surprise of the situation against a non-typical target. I'm glad I wasn't there to deal with the aftermath either way.

Charon

easymo · « **Reply #3 on:** September 28, 2001, 03:40:00 PM »

a non-typical target

Unfortunatly there there was nothing non-typical about it. In spite of what the newsweenies say. Terrorist attacks are nothing new. Much of what the VC did could be defined that way. Bombing G.I. bars, chucking frags from the back of honda's, That sort of thing.

loser · « **Reply #4 on:** September 28, 2001, 04:03:00 PM »

total "Hobson's choice"

skernsk · « **Reply #5 on:** September 28, 2001, 04:12:00 PM »

I have two kids and I can't contemplate pulling the trigger. That is a decision I'm glad I never had to make.

easymo · « **Reply #6 on:** September 28, 2001, 04:22:00 PM »

OK people. Everybody has been talking toejam on these boards. What do you do when it gets real.

All anyone has done so far is point out that it is a tough choice. That was already obvious.

Remember. No button pushing at 30,000 feet. You are on the ground. If you pull it. You are going to have to look at the results. What would you do?

[ 09-28-2001: Message edited by: easymo ]

Gunthr · « **Reply #7 on:** September 28, 2001, 04:22:00 PM »

A good soldier who has morals is at a disadvantage in any war. (and yes, I'm dodging the puzzle)

The puzzle does remind me of the madman Kurtz in "Apocolypse Now" when he described the diamond-hard will of Viet-Cong fighters who had the wherewithal to hack off the arm of every Green Beret-vaccinated child in the village, leaving a pile of little arms behind when they left. It truley must have been a test of sanity and morality to have to fight and survive in a war like that.

I know when my brother came home from Vietnam, he was changed. He was 19 years old and skinny as a rail - fresh over malaria. He had a purple heart and a bronze star. One day he was over there, the next day he was back here, and he didn't know how to act.

I still call my brother every single Veteran's day and thank him. And so do my kids. <S> EasyMo

Gunthr

AKDejaVu · « **Reply #8 on:** September 28, 2001, 04:32:00 PM »

A kid carrying a grenade in your or any other soldier's direction? Pretty easy decision IMO.

But what about a kid carrying a doll? Having heard that several soldiers were killed or maimed because of exploiding children's toys... what do you do then?

Of course, we could sit here all day and discuss hypothetical situations... the truth is, we'd rather not have to make that decision... or we hope the decision we make will be acceptable even in hindsight. Other than that... its just a battle of who can use words better.

AKDejaVu

john9001 · « **Reply #9 on:** September 28, 2001, 07:24:00 PM »

i was in the military, right or wrong i was taught to shoot first , ID target second.

if your in a war zone , you can die

war is not nice , war is not pretty, war is people dieing

[ 09-28-2001: Message edited by: john9001 ]

MrBill · « **Reply #10 on:** September 28, 2001, 08:17:00 PM »

Bang!! nuff said.

Toad · « **Reply #11 on:** September 28, 2001, 08:51:00 PM »

Death either way, right?

The kid drops the frag, he's dead AND the trooper is dead. (Possibly other bystanders as well.)

You drop the kid, only one death.

In this case, less is more. Shoot.

Sherman was right. Plato was right.

ispar · « **Reply #12 on:** September 28, 2001, 10:22:00 PM »

Or maybe they were all wrong...

Sorrow[S=A] · « **Reply #13 on:** September 29, 2001, 04:00:00 AM »

I can't say what others would do, or myself. but a good friend of my family was over last night and I asked her what she would do.

She has served twice in Bosnia with the Royal Canadian Artillery and she didn't pause for a breath. "if there was a child walking towards the trucks hiding something in his hand I would shout and shoot as fast as I could get my rifle out. If that kid had a doll I would cry for days and never forget I did it. But I wouldn't hesitate for a second. People who hesitate with that situation shouldn't BE in that situation."

Not an exact answer to your puzzle Easymo- but an answer nonetheless. I think US troops are the exact same- there only 1 light infantry division and they have allot of experience now from peacekeeping. I think they would react the same way if they were not a FNG.

cars · « **Reply #14 on:** September 29, 2001, 04:16:00 AM »

well, i don't know if its cheating or not, but I was over there for a couple tours so I know the answer.... There are those who will shoot and those who won't just like the different opinions on this board. If you like the SGT. you're more likely to shoot than if you were thinking of fragging him yourself. I'd shoot in a heartbeat.

cars